Kotare teaser - it's a Bf 109K!

[cbk57]

Cost of kits Kotare or otherwise.  If a kit costs more but delivers a great build, I am okay with that, kits have come a long way since the 1980s.  Ignoring inflation compare a 1/32 kit from 1975 to a kit tooled today.  The level of detail is normally a mile beyond what was done back then.  I don:t mind paying for that, I would buy a MacBook over a RadioShack model 2000 Computer from 1980 also.  What I find appaling really is that those old kits are sold at modern prices.  Someone tries to buy a model at the craft store and a 50 year old kit is $30.00 and should be $15.00.  Hobby lobby sales a fair number of really old kits and although they discount, their retail is modern prices for old kits.  Kind of lick paying the same price for a new Mac as a 50 year old pc.  Imagine if you could still buy brand new computers using 50 year old technology but inflation added.  I think modeling a cheap hobby as long as you don:t hoard.  

 

A person that wants to build the Border Lancaster could focus on that model for 2 years at at $600.00 you can:t get cable for three months for that price in the U.S.  When I cut cable, my basic package was over $200.00 per month.  Models are cheap as long as you actually build what you buy as you buy them.  Think of it in 1/32 if you only bought a model when you finished the last one, your hobby would only cost you two or three hundred dollars per year for most of us.  

 

I would submit that most model kits you can get whenever you want even if worst case you have to pay full retail.  As such Ebay is the ultimate stash, you don:t have to own the kit but can get it whenever you want.  However take a Tamiya Mosquito, it is a better economic decision for me to pay $250.00 for the kit when I am actually going to build it, than it is to pay $150.00 stick on a a shelf and never build it.  I can buy a Mosquito any day I want typically on ebay so why store one on my shelf?  Now there are exceptions to this rule, for example, if you are a fan of Jet Mads kits, you have to buy those when they are announced as a rule.  But most injection molded kits relativly speaking are in unlimited supply.  Even if you pay up for a kit that has gone out of production, if you are going to build it, what is the problem?  

Edited January 15 by cbk57

[thierry laurent]

34 minutes ago, cbk57 said:

But most injection molded kits relativly speaking are in unlimited supply. 

 

Alas, this was the case but is not anymore the actual situation of MANY plastic kits! This also depends on the topic. If you're looking for a 1/35 Tiger IE or a 1/32 Mustang, you will find one easily. However, simply try to find a 1/32 A-36 Apache, Bell Jetranger or Albatros DV for a reasonable price...

[cbk57]

11 minutes ago, thierry laurent said:

 

Alas, this was the case but is not anymore the actual situation of MANY plastic kits! This also depends on the topic. If you're looking for a 1/35 Tiger IE or a 1/32 Mustang, you will find one easily. However, simply try to find a 1/32 A-36 Apache, Bell Jetranger or Albatros DV for a reasonable price...

The word “relative” is an allowance for any particular exceptions one might come up with.  But take the Albatros DV the rule still holds, it is better to buy one when it is available even at a high price and build it.  So what if it’s $250.00 if you are going to build it.  If I wanted to build a DV, personally I would buy one and build it.  If you are going to stick it on a shelf and leave it in the box might be a waste of money.  Most model kits are available however there are exceptions that are expensive and rare, all things are that way.  Most of us want a watch, a few people want a Rolex and those are expensive.  However there are plenty of watches.  

[quang]

54 minutes ago, cbk57 said:

Even if you pay up for a kit that has gone out of production, if you are going to build it, what is the problem?  

The problem is that nobody, especially myself, can be sure I’m going to build it. 

[cbk57]

7 minutes ago, quang said:

The problem is that nobody, especially myself, can be sure I’m going to build it. 

Then don:t buy the kit, very simple.  It is a cheap hobby, if you are smart about it expensive kits relativly speaking are cheap.  I have more kits than I can build in a reasonable period of time, however I sill have only about 20 kits on hand.  I choose to not buy a lot of kits and purchased a Jetmads kit because a deal was available, I realized it was just sitting and moved it on to someone else.  I love the WNW DV, wish i had one on hand kind of however, I don:t, I have lots of models to build, no bid deal.  If i really did want to make it a priority to buy one and build it I would spend the money and sell a kit or two to reduce the cost.  Again no big deal, they are out there and available to buy.  Also as prices will go up, either someone will produce one in 1/32 or somehow WNW will bring them back into production someday.  

[quang]

5 minutes ago, cbk57 said:

Then don:t buy the kit, very simple.

That’s what I’m doing these last few years. I only buy what I build.
Sometimes the kit is not exactly what I expected but I ain’t complaining. It’s just a part of the deal. 

[mozart]

Thank you cbk57, you’ve just made me feel a whole lot better about my “old man’s whim*” recent purchase of an MDC Typhoon. 

* An old “Round the Horn” joke:

 

Female victim: “Why have you strapped me to this ironing board ?”

 

Mad Scientist: ”Call it an old man’s whim.”

 

Female victim: ”All right why have you strapped me to this old man’s whim?”

 

They don’t write jokes like that any more! 

[DeanKB]

2 hours ago, cbk57 said:

The word “relative” is an allowance for any particular exceptions one might come up with.  But take the Albatros DV the rule still holds, it is better to buy one when it is available even at a high price and build it.  So what if it’s $250.00 if you are going to build it.  If I wanted to build a DV, personally I would buy one and build it.  If you are going to stick it on a shelf and leave it in the box might be a waste of money.  Most model kits are available however there are exceptions that are expensive and rare, all things are that way.  Most of us want a watch, a few people want a Rolex and those are expensive.  However there are plenty of watches.  

You have for too much financial self-control and logic to be a modeller!

 

The kits that hold their values are those that have no more recent competition. The likes of Hasegawa's Fi156, and their set of inter-war US prop planes are popular because they are still, in 1/32, the best of their type - because they are the only ones of their type.

 

Even the older kits that have been overtaken by the competition - Revell's Corsair, Mossie & Beaufighter, Hasegawa's Japanese WWII fighters spring to mind - are significantly cheaper than more modern kits, and for many with smaller budgets, they represent their only chance at 1/32. And although the moulds are old, the cost of injecting them with plastic continues to increase year on year with inflation, so even "old" kits will not hold their "old" price.

 

On a more serious note, stash building is a sub-hobby of modelling, and 1/32 is probably the smallest aeroplane modelling niche, so when you see, for instance, a Tamiya Mossie at $130, or a WNW Fokker D.VII $140, the argument for buying becomes "If I don't buy this now, it'll end up costing me more in the future". In addition, it's easy to change those kits back to money by selling them, they remain resellable right up to the time you start building them, at which point their value plummets. 

 

That's my excuse, and I'm sticking to it.

 

 

[cbk57]

1 hour ago, mozart said:

Thank you cbk57, you’ve just made me feel a whole lot better about my “old man’s whim*” recent purchase of an MDC Typhoon. 

* An old “Round the Horn” joke:

 

Female victim: “Why have you strapped me to this ironing board ?”

 

Mad Scientist: ”Call it an old man’s whim.”

 

Female victim: ”All right why have you strapped me to this old man’s whim?”

 

They don’t write jokes like that any more! 

That is the way to role, if we buy responsibly, this is an absurdly cheap hobby, it is the overbuying and hoarding when it gets expensive.  I don:t know what the most absurd price is on a Jetmads Viggen, but let’s say you bought that and spent the quality time building it, then so what.  The enjoyment of that build if your thing would be worth every penny, and cheaper than most other hobbies.  Say you wanted to restore an old Mazda Miata these can be cheap by car standards, but a good starting point on a 1990 Miata is probably 4,000 plus t and then you start spending from there.  You could spend 500 or more on a Jet Mads kit and still be money way ahead over ones favorite piece of machinery to build up, Car, Motorcycle, whatever.  I only name Jet Mads as I know they are expensive.

[monthebiff]

Got to say I was quite shocked that 1/24 Airfix Typhoon's are now like rocking horse poop and are very difficult to get unless you want to pay £250-300GBP!

 

Hopefully by the time they do a re-pop it will fit in nicely with my slowly decreasing eyesight 

 

Regards  Andy 

[LSP_Kevin]

5 hours ago, mozart said:

Thank you cbk57, you’ve just made me feel a whole lot better about my “old man’s whim*” recent purchase of an MDC Typhoon. 

* An old “Round the Horn” joke:

 

Female victim: “Why have you strapped me to this ironing board ?”

 

Mad Scientist: ”Call it an old man’s whim.”

 

Female victim: ”All right why have you strapped me to this old man’s whim?”

 

They don’t write jokes like that any more! 

 

That reminds me of this gag from The Young Ones:

 

CAPTAIN: [to a woman who was out of view] Aged and toothless and bent old crone!

CRONE: How'd you know me name?

CAPTAIN: We wish to engage you as ship's cook and concubine.

CRONE: Oh yeah? What's a concubine, then?

CAPTAIN: It's a small, spiky mammal.

CRONE: No... that's a hedgehog!

CAPTAIN: In that case we wish to engage you in ships cook and hedgehog.

 

Kev

[Dpgsbody55]

Up to now, I've not been worried about the cost of a kit or, within reason, aftermarket embellishments.  I'll buy Z-M, Tamiya and ICM kits because I know I'm going to enjoy building these kits and I know they're well detailed and good quality.  I have the Kotare early Spitfire on order and that I do consider a bit expensive considering it has no engine.  However, I've long wanted to do an early Spitfire, so I bought it.  I have also bought other stuff like the latest Airfix 1/24 kits which have also been very good, but I'm not likely to buy on any sort of a whim any more.  I'm getting too old and may never get to them.  Any other new purchases are going to be much more carefully considered.

 

In my part of the world, building a stash for the kits you know you want to build is a good idea.  They come and go out of the local stores, rarely to come back.  Local shops also rarely stock after market goodies so I order what I want when I buy the kit to make sure I've got what I want.  In some instances, buying on line means the cost of postage can double the cost, especially from the US to Aus.  So I have a relatively small stash of twenty seven kits, maybe a bit more.  I did buy four WNW kits, and I'm now unlikely to build at least one of them so that may be put up for sale, plus a few 1/48 scale kits which may also be sold.  The rest I'll build so not a waste of money.

 

For other kits that picque my interest, I buy them as I want to and that is rare.  I've reached the point now where I need to reduce the number of kits in my stash as at the rate I build, I'll be too old and shakey to do this to the standard I'm happy with if I don't reduce my stocks now.  Most of my kits are the recent stuff - Tamiya, Z-M or ICM so very good quality, well detailed and "must builds".  I tend to avoid older kits now or other brands (I'm looking at you, Trumpeter) which are usually full of inaccuracies, or other brands like Hasegawa which are just old kits now though I would be interested in a P-40N if ever they re release these at a more affordable price than the last re release. 

 

This brings me on to another sore point.  Why are old kits almost as costly as new kits?  Some recent Hasegawa and Airfix re releases are truly exhorbitant when you consider the development and tooling costs will have been amortised decades ago, so why are they pricing them comparable to new kits???.  The last P-40N re release was just a rip off in my opinion.  Don't get me started on the old Airfix 1/24 Spitfire Mk.I and Messersschmitt 109E in terms of both detail and quality.  Those molds should be given a proper and respectful funeral.  I do understand that some love these kits and I'm happy to follow the build progress and see how others build a great model out of the proverbial sow's ear.  Respect to you if that's your thing, but not for this grumpy old man.  But I bought that Spitfire for $12 in 1970 and I ain't paying three figures for that now.

 

Cheers,

Michael

Edited January 16 by Dpgsbody55

[Tony T]

My current philosophy is to buy no more than three, build three and dump six each year.

Those three categories may intersect, but tend to be new stash, build from older stash and sell or give away never-builds, respectively. 

 

I agree older tooling should be sold cheaply. The age of the tooling should in fact be be labelled on the box top and should create an auto-discount to drive those dreadful kits into the second-hand styrene underworld after 25 years.  

 

As for depreciation, I am desperately hoping that the Rye Field tease of a new Fishbed turns out to be 1:32, costs a fortune as it's wonderful and immediately turns my old Trumpeter '21s into valueless pieces of junk.

 

As World Leader, I would also decree that every kit sold come with two sets of carefully wrapped clear parts.

 

So there!

 

Tony

[europapete]

To return momentarily to CBK's remark about the car hobby costs. To give you a current benchmark, I recently completed a restoration ( complete, frame off, including rebuilding all mechanicals) of a 1974 Triumph TR6 for a customer. It came to just over $25,000. 

I think our hobby is affordable.

[thierry laurent]

Old kits are nearly as expensive as new ones for a simple reason: many buyers have no clue about the date of the initial release! So, as a company, it is an easy way to increase profitability.