gwana Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Holy. Crap. (slinks off into corner to cry) airscale 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airscale Posted April 20, 2018 Author Share Posted April 20, 2018 evening ladies thanks for stopping by, things have been a bit crazy at work this week, but I did get a little done... but first some questions: Peter, What do you use to cut the aluminum? I can't imagine doing anything that nice with my left and right snips. Gaz Hi Gaz - I just score it once with a scalpel (I change the blades quite frequently) and then bend it backwards & forwards until it breaks cleanly. It needs very little persuasion once you get it moving ..this even works for curves, but if they are tight, or difficult then just scissors but with those you need tobe careful the 'active blade' is curling the metal you don't want, not the part... What do you use to bend the rod so neatly? I had some problems to bend some tubes lately, but that's something different, of course. Keep it coming, please! Juraj Hi Juraj - I just us a little brass clamp seen in some pics later, or pliers - I have both round nose and flats.. sometimes like in the case above it needs to be bent around something of the diameter of the inner radius of the corner you want. Tube is another matter - this will just kink, though there are tricks to get around it, the only way I have got to work in the diameters we work in is to fill the tube with wire at the bend point.. Of course I have a question or two though...... On your doublers, how do you score and snap the inside lines without deforming the rest of the piece through the corner? The other one is the little holes in the seat back. Clearly they aren't round, so how do you make them and keep them so clean? Do you start with a proper circle and then slowly expand? Craig Hi Craig - well the trick with those, and in fact both areas where holes are needed is to tape the template for the hole to the litho (if you don't have one, make one...) and then run round and round it with a sharp pin. This scores the metal quite deeply and you should keep going until you can see the outline of the scoring from underneath.. Then carefully use a blade to run along any straight areas and one or other side will start to give... once a side gives and becomes weak, I just hold the bit i want to break out and carefully wiggle the sheet around it - ultimately metal fatigue takes over and the part starts to break free. It can take time, so don't rush, and be gentle as as you say you can easily kink the corners or somewhere you don't want to bend.. ..if the hole you want is too small to hold between you fingers, I try and hold it in a hold'n'fold right along one of the scored edges, and then just push at it right at that edge with a tool and it too will soon start to break free so, onto the pilot's seat.. ..having made the back panel, the next part is the seat itself.. again this seems a bit of an enigma as some drawings and a lot of kits have a straight edge at the front - I have this pic which seems to marry with a few others that shows the front with a curved dip at the front, so I went with that.. ..to make what looks like a pressing I used the same process as for the seat back - a block of perspex acrylic shaped to form annealed metal over, so I started by marking out the outer dimensions and the inner point at which it curves inwards to form the 'bucket' ..then I used a cutting disc to work away the waste to get the main profile set out, including the dipped area at the front.. ..until this is further refined to get the ultimate profile I want... ..once I had the male form, I wanted to make the rod frame the pressing is fixed to so bent some brass rod until it was the same shape (which took a lot of fiddling...) and popped it in my clamp to solder where it joins - you can just see it in the clamp on the right.. ..once cleaned up, a final check that the buck and the frame fit together (allowing for the metal too..).. ..then a small square of litho is annealed an taped down - at this point just gentle pressure all the way round to sort of 'seat' it on the buck.. ..to get the proper form, I use a balsa block, and ultimately a tiny ball pein hammer to tap out any folds and combined with harder wood blocks start to force the softened metal to conform to the shape.. ..the final stage is to start taping it hard down around the edges and really making sure it is taking the form.. ..after removing the tape, I have the basic pressing - I should have been more careful as some perspex dust got under the tape and caused a few little divots.. ..I turned it over and used a sharpie to outline the shape of the frame onto the pressing and then cut it out by scoring the edges and scissors for the corners.... .. then it was CA'd into place, the edges rounded around the rod frame and cleaned up.. ..and when taped to the back it looks in proportion to the plan I have.. ..lots and lots of detail to add, but the basic shapes are there to start work on. I am hoping to find more reference for this kind of seat as inexplicably for one of the world's best known warbirds, I can find hardly anything that shows a seat like this one out of the airframe... TTFNPeter Hubert Boillot, CANicoll, LSP_Kevin and 19 others 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 I have these ... hth Trak-Tor, BiggTim, MARU5137 and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerhard Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 I give up, will building 40 piece puzzles be an adequate replacement hobby? airscale and fab 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airscale Posted April 21, 2018 Author Share Posted April 21, 2018 I have these ... hth thanks Mike - they are really, really useful - most useful in fact as a sense of proportion.. I can see my seat back is off - the frame is too 'big bore' so I will have to make another:) thanks again Peter Uilleann, Gerhard and MikeMaben 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerhard Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 thanks Mike - they are really, really useful - most useful in fact as a sense of proportion.. I can see my seat back is off - the frame is too 'big bore' so I will have to make another:) thanks again Peter Oh Oh, BIG mouth!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodgem37 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 Nice tutorial, Peter. Lots of steps to get to fruition, as well as patience to problem-solve. Good show. 'I have these ...' You just happen to have a P-51 seat lying around in your driveway? Sincerely, Mark sandokan, airscale, Greg W and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maxim Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 Marvelous work on the seat. Scratchbuilding at it's best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brahman104 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 Hi Craig - well the trick with those, and in fact both areas where holes are needed is to tape the template for the hole to the litho (if you don't have one, make one...) and then run round and round it with a sharp pin. This scores the metal quite deeply and you should keep going until you can see the outline of the scoring from underneath.. Then carefully use a blade to run along any straight areas and one or other side will start to give... once a side gives and becomes weak, I just hold the bit i want to break out and carefully wiggle the sheet around it - ultimately metal fatigue takes over and the part starts to break free. It can take time, so don't rush, and be gentle as as you say you can easily kink the corners or somewhere you don't want to bend.. ..if the hole you want is too small to hold between you fingers, I try and hold it in a hold'n'fold right along one of the scored edges, and then just push at it right at that edge with a tool and it too will soon start to break free Thank you as always for taking the time educate me Peter! As always I think I tend to forget just how much time you invest in every little part, especially as all of them are always to such a high standard Your latest post is a fantastic tutorial on your metal forming, with the spectacular result you've got. I can only imagine just how long it took to get the brass rod to hold the shape you wanted! Craig airscale 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kylenlord Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 Hi Peter, Amazing work on the seat! I have a question pertaining to the dorsal fin. The main fin is offset to account for engine torque, but is the dorsal fin off center as well? It would seem that would put the dorsal fin pretty far over towards the nose, but then again having a “kink†where the two meet might look off too. Thanks Kyle airscale 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 You just happen to have a P-51 seat lying around in your driveway? Well sure , it was my Mom's ! airscale and MARU5137 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NukerDan Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 Hi Peter, Don't know if they'd be any help to you, but there's at least one shot of a P-51C cockpit and several very good ones of a P-51B cockpit in this album on the Scale Model Historians FB page. https://www.facebook.com/groups/683219335188246/permalink/1029350000575176/ MikeMaben and airscale 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnarO Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 (edited) Hi Peter You've got this, which slightly differ from the information you have already. This is from the P-51 B/C Parts list. There were probably more than one version of the seat, the parts list have two. If you look at the P-51 D/K Parts list, you'll find this: Cheers Edited April 22, 2018 by GunnarO CANicoll, airscale, MikeMaben and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 Hi Peter, Don't know if they'd be any help to you, but there's at least one shot of a P-51C cockpit and several very good ones of a P-51B cockpit in this album on the Scale Model Historians FB page. https://www.facebook.com/groups/683219335188246/permalink/1029350000575176/ Hey Dan, we need to get Randy to start a Flickr account. He's got boatloads of great detail pics of lots of aircraft that he posts on FB.. He said he's thinking about a webpage so let's hope. NukerDan, airscale and MARU5137 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunnus Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Totally different level stuff going on here! I can only watch in wonder. airscale 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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