Quinta Studio - 3D printed interior for NEW P-51D, Su-25, F-16C

[Tony T]

Off and on, I've been building model kits since 1965, but I've never been a craftsman, just an artist. It's quite alarming to learn that's it's the more skilled model makers and paint finishers who find this new technology so threatening. 

 

Frankly, if I could buy 1/32 kits ready made and just tart them up with details like correct countermeasures pods, antennae etc I'd buy them. My modelling these days has focused more on resin ground accessories.

 

Tony 

[Tony T]

On 30 August 2020 at 8:32 AM, Radub said:

 

I posted an explanatory reply to this, but I deleted it.  

Radu 

 

I admire your unquestionable talents Radu, but we are all entitled to our opinions, including you. 

 

Tony

[Pete Fleischmann]

3 hours ago, LSP_K2 said:

The one thought I have, is that something that's this much so "ready-to-go", may adversely affect the chances one has in competitions, which all of my models are built for. Most judges, including myself, look for craftsmanship skills associated with model building, and this sort of drop-in detail, no matter how nice, could be seen as completely bypassing the skills portion, specifically as it applies (obviously) to 'pit detailing/painting. All other things being equal, scratch building details, with quality treatment of painting skills, will win out over drop-in AM resin and P.E. details, and drop-in pre-detailed, pre-painted AM items will come in after those two. That's my present view anyway.

Here in the US I think it’s different, unfortunately. Seems that judging is based only on construction..ie clean seams, straight landing gear legs, alignment, blah blah, with no consideration given for craftsmanship, finish, creativity...or God forbid...accuracy.
 

Pete

Edited September 1, 2020 by Pete Fleischmann

[LSP_K2]

33 minutes ago, Pete Fleischmann said:

Here in the US I think it’s different, unfortunately. Seems that judging is based only on construction..ie clean seams, straight landing gear legs, alignment, blah blah, with no consideration given for craftsmanship, finish, creativity...or God forbid...accuracy.
 

Pete

 

I don't see that as an unfortunate thing at all, nor do I necessarily agree. Many has been the time when the other judges and myself discuss the merits of true quality of craftsmanship and artistry, specifically as it applies to the last three models we've narrowed the selections down to, per class. The discussions occurring as regards the judges best of show winner, always including all thirty or so judges, are especially concentrated on level of complexity, additional work and the higher skills required to separate one from the rest. At that stage, alignment and fit issues are no longer relevant, as the models have all passed those tests long before, in the eliminations phases.

[Out2gtcha]

2 hours ago, Pete Fleischmann said:

Here in the US I think it’s different, unfortunately. Seems that judging is based only on construction..ie clean seams, straight landing gear legs, alignment, blah blah, with no consideration given for craftsmanship, finish, creativity...or God forbid...accuracy.

 

 

Having subbed in as a judge in many a US IPMS events in different states, I conquere that this is unfortunately accurate. 

Based on the normal IPMS judging criteria set out by most hosting US IPMS chapters, it's all about having all the points at first, then taking away points from there for seams, non-level wings/empannage,  non-straight wheels ect, ect, non of it having anything to do with accuracy for the model, or even level of detail. Once in a while you get a judge who will recognize great/extra detail, but generally nothing is ever taken away points wise for something like having the wrong IP for a certain version ect. 

It's kind of a shame in a lot of ways but that is how it goes.

 

[DonH]

I don't build for competition, I build for therapy. I derive great joy from modelling, it is a fun hobby. You will never see 99% of the kits I build because I build them for me.

 

If I decide to use this product, it will be because I want to try it out and have a nice looking pit without too much effort. This is an option, take it or leave it. 

[Radub]

Competitions have classes that cater for all levels of effort. Models using this kind of accessories will be competing against similar models. 

This hobby has been progressing since its inception. There used to be a magazine called Scale Models International and each issue featured a thought piece called “Tail boom” at the end. One such article published in around 1993 (that year I got my first subscription to it) discussed whether the “P” for “plastic” in IPMS was apt any longer, considering the increase in the fancy new materials such as white metal parts and the even newer photo-etched brass parts. At that time resin parts were almost unheard of (mostly Verlinden “territory”). Apparently at that time modellers were complaining about the “unfair competitions” where people with buying power could buy the latest gizmos and outcompete the true craftsmen. In that context, they wanted to ban all “non-plastic” items in IPMS competitions. In the end, the writer of the article concluded that this was just the next step in a relentlessly progressing hobby and that we should think that the word “plastic” means more than just the synthetic polymer but it also means a “material that can be shaped”, no matter what that material is. That article left a lasting impression on me, as you can see. I miss Jeff and his articles.

Like it or not, this genie is out of the bottle. This technology is as ground-breaking as engraved panel lines on models - once that happened, there was no turning back. This technology will become as ubiquitous as resin or  photo-etched parts, and may even replace them. 
Radu

Edited September 2, 2020 by Radub

[Radub]

9 hours ago, Tony T said:

 

I admire your unquestionable talents Radu, but we are all entitled to our opinions, including you. 

 

Tony

That was why I deleted my reply. 
Radu

[thierry laurent]

One aspect that did not seem to have been really considered in that discussion is crucial to me: whatever may be your skills, you CANNOT reach a similar level of detail. To me, this is the main difference with most of the other technological progresses we discussed.

 

Many things may be done with skills and experience. Finally, all the resin parts we purchased were up to recently made out of manually done masters. So, with some basic tools, it is theoretically possible to get the same result with a personal effort even if, obviously, what is possible for you is maybe impossible for me for multiple reasons (eyesight, patience, experience, skills, etc.). Other aftermarket sets (such as photoetched or 3D print) ask for other types of skills but with time and some resources, you can produce similar results as well.

 

However, here, we are entering in a different league. Here, to me, this is simply impossible for anyone! That level of detail cannot be obtained with painting skills, even the best ones. So, even if this possibly asks for very basic skills to be used, we have to consider that, at the opposite end of the skill scope, even the best modeller cannot get such a result without such sets, at least for modern cockpits. I'm less convinced for vintage ones unless for smaller scales (such as 1/72).

 

This is why, personally, I will use them without a single second of hesitation. There will still be enough models for which such options are not existing to allow me to have fun with scratchbuilt cockpit parts, notwithstanding details in LG wells or radio/avionics bays!

[Basta]

Just to put this in perspective, when 3D printing reaches its maturity, you can also retire your scribers and rivet wheels, and most resin too, and most scratch will go the way of the dodo. The new skill-sets to master will be CAD, downloading and finding the print button. Fasten your seat-belts, folks. 

[Neo]

So in a turn of discution. 

Has anyone had a chance to try these out? Id love to see real life application

Cheers

[Radub]

2 hours ago, Basta said:

Just to put this in perspective, when 3D printing reaches its maturity, you can also retire your scribers and rivet wheels, and most resin too, and most scratch will go the way of the dodo. The new skill-sets to master will be CAD, downloading and finding the print button. Fasten your seat-belts, folks. 

 

3D-printing has already reached maturity. Right now you can get anything 3D-printed by just hitting "print". All you need to do is invest time and effort in designing it (or pay someone else to invest their time and effort in the design you need), pay for a machine (either to own it or to "rent" time on it) and pay for the resin and cleanup. It is a simple as that.

Radu 

[nichenson]

2 hours ago, Neo said:

So in a turn of discution. 

Has anyone had a chance to try these out? Id love to see real life application

Cheers

 

The train left the rails quite awhile ago, lol.  I have seen several kits in 1/48 with them.  They all look great and seem to match the various cockpit paint colors.  I do have the F-16 set enroute.  When it gets here I will review it. 

[GMK]

On 8/26/2020 at 5:54 PM, vince14 said:

So I'm assuming you've never, ever used a single aftermarket item on a kit?

You guys use kits?

[GMK]

5 hours ago, Radub said:

 

3D-printing has already reached maturity. Right now you can get anything 3D-printed by just hitting "print". All you need to do is invest time and effort in designing it (or pay someone else to invest their time and effort in the design you need), pay for a machine (either to own it or to "rent" time on it) and pay for the resin and cleanup. It is a simple as that.

Radu 

There’s a bit more to it than that. My current project is up to 413 hours or printing, so far. Design started afresh in July and is about 60% done. Then there’s post processing and cleanup, before building. It’s more akin to researching, designing, and manufacturing a kit, then building it.