Quinta Studio - 3D printed interior for NEW P-51D, Su-25, F-16C

[Radub]

45 minutes ago, Starfighter said:

 

This is obviously an excellent product which looks extremely good, but again, using it does not require ANY skill - because it is so good.. 

 

Every single “product” related to our hobby is aimed at making it easier to create a model than doing it from “scratch”. Anything that comes in any kind of packaging is a “product”. A multitude of different technologies may be used to bring that “product” to your hands. Any such “product” was designed and produced by someone else and made available to others. Did you make it from scratch or did you purchase it? One is a “creator”, the other is a customer.” Is this cheating? I don’t think so, take any aspect of the world around us, food, shelter, clothing, entertainment, transport and you will find that there are plenty of thing intended to make life easier without calling it “cheating”. 

Radu

[Lothar]

To me this discussion boils down to he who builds his cockpits scratch, drills all the little holes for the switches and knobs by hand and the then paints everything by hand bit by bit has "skills", those who use these pre-produced add-ons are just "amateurs". I'm in my 70s, Mr. Handicap has paied me a visit and I am certainly not up to the level I used to be anylonger. If I still want to enjoy model building I have no choice, but to take any help I can get - yes, in aftermarket. And the fact, that I still build models despite my handicap but don't drill tiny holes myself anylonger does classify me as "Mr. Average Modeller"? Sooner or later all you "skilled" modellers will have to face similar situations, I'd like to know what your thinking is then. This discussion about "skills" vs. "amateur" is one of the reasons, I hesitate to post pictures here.

Lothar

Edited August 31, 2020 by Lothar

[Starfighter]

You still don't get my point, Radu. Please read my post again. I didn't call anything "cheating" by the way. 

[Starfighter]

1 minute ago, Lothar said:

To me this discussion boils down to he who builds his cockpits scratch, drills all the little holes for the switches and knobs by hand and the then paints everything by hand bit by bit has "skills", those who use these pre-produced add-ons are just "amateurs". I'm in my 70s, Mr. Parkinson has paied me a visit and I am certainly not up to the level I used to be anylonger. If I still want to enjoy model building I have no choice, but to take any help I can get - yes, in aftermarket. And the fact, that I still build models despite my handicap but don't drill tiny holes myself anylonger does classify me as "Mr. Average Modeller"? Sooner or later all you "skilled" modellers will have to face similar situations, I'd like to know what your thinking is then. This discussion about "skills" vs. "amateur" is one of the reasons, I don't post pictures here anymore 

Lothar

 

If your post is aimed at me, you sadly did not get my point either, Lothar. This is not what I said at all. 

[Radub]

 

12 minutes ago, Starfighter said:

You still don't get my point, Radu. Please read my post again. I didn't call anything "cheating" by the way. 

 

I got your point. I just do not agree with it. We live in an industrial era where everything is made for us. Do you live in a shelter you built with your own hands, wearing clothes you wove and stitched, sitting on furniture you made in a room warmed with wood you felled and chopped to serve a dinner consisting of ingredients you grew and harvested, with cutlery and crockery of your own making? Are you making models from unprocessed raw materials with tools you forged and honed? Everything in our world was made available to all of us through the efforts of others. Availing of the best that the world can offer is not "cheating." 

 

1 hour ago, Starfighter said:

 

The difference between the Quinta parts and all other methods called "cheating" is, that all of these other methods REQUIRE SKILL, be it CAD drawing, knowing how to use a printer, how to orient parts, making resin parts fit or paint them... you name 

 

Here is where you used the word "cheating". As already pointed, everything that we purchase is made for us by others. Whether that stuff is made with a computer or a shovel, it does not matter. 

 

Radu 

[Radub]

29 minutes ago, Lothar said:

To me this discussion boils down to he who builds his cockpits scratch, drills all the little holes for the switches and knobs by hand and the then paints everything by hand bit by bit has "skills", those who use these pre-produced add-ons are just "amateurs". I'm in my 70s, Mr. Parkinson has paied me a visit and I am certainly not up to the level I used to be anylonger. If I still want to enjoy model building I have no choice, but to take any help I can get - yes, in aftermarket. And the fact, that I still build models despite my handicap but don't drill tiny holes myself anylonger does classify me as "Mr. Average Modeller"? Sooner or later all you "skilled" modellers will have to face similar situations, I'd like to know what your thinking is then. This discussion about "skills" vs. "amateur" is one of the reasons, I don't post pictures here anymore 

Lothar

 

What you are describing is  "skill" vs "ability". Your medical condition is limiting your "ability" to apply your "skill".

Radu

[Starfighter]

No, you don't get my point, Radu. The sentence may not have been clear (sorry for not being a native speaker) - it should have been "The difference between the Quinta parts and all other methods OTHERS HAVE called "cheating" is, that all of these other methods REQUIRE SKILL, be it CAD drawing, knowing how to use a printer, how to orient parts, making resin parts fit or paint them..."

 

Again, I did not call anything "cheating", not even the Quinta parts - but other users did in previous posts. All I say is that using them (= Quinta parts) does not require any skills (from the user, not the creator) opposed to pretty much all other kinds on aftermarket or techniques. 

 

I addition, I never said it was required to do everything yourself to call yourself a modeler and you obviously did not read my post properly. And your comparison with tools, a house, closing and all that other stuff is not just over the top, it's pretty much ridiculous. You simply don't get my point or you want to put me in a certain corner - or you do not want to get my point.

 

Anyway, the discussion is over from my side - I've made my point clear (or at least I tried it) and that should be enough. I'm not against aftermarket, kits or technological progress. I'm just not a huge fan of products reducing the required skills to "0".   

Edited August 31, 2020 by Starfighter

[Radub]

3 minutes ago, Starfighter said:

No, you don't get my point, Radu. The sentence may not have been clear (sorry for not being a native speaker) - it should have been "The difference between the Quinta parts and all other methods OTHERS HAVE called "cheating" is, that all of these other methods REQUIRE SKILL, be it CAD drawing, knowing how to use a printer, how to orient parts, making resin parts fit or paint them..."

 

Again, I did not call anything "cheating", not even the Quinta parts - but other users did in previous posts. All I say is that using them (= Quinta parts) does not require any skills (from the user, not the creator) opposed to pretty much all other kinds on aftermarket or techniques. 

 

I addition, I never said it was required to do everything yourself to call yourself a modeler and you obviously did not read my post properly. And your comparison with tools, a house, closing and all that other stuff is not just over the top, it's pretty much ridiculous. You simply don't get my point or you want to put me in a certain corner. 

 

I don't want to "corner" you! I just strongly believe that this hobby is based on work created by others, we just purchase their work. You name it! Kits, accessories, paints, decals, whatever, if you got it in a package it was not made by you. You are just the customer, not the creator. Therefore it is daft to argue that "model stuff that comes in that package is OK" and "model stuff that comes in the other package is cheating". That is all!

Radu 

[Starfighter]

Again, I never judged if it is "OK" or not to use a certain product and I never called any product or technique "cheating" and I never ever denied most of our hobby is based on bought products.

[thierry laurent]

Ben never used the term 'cheating'. I did as this is how I translated the difference of effort/skill valor he hinted. Sorry if that generated misunderstandings. 

[fastterry]

Well I'm in Lothar's age bracket (without the Parkinsons but I have Mylofibrosis) and I've done my fair share of scratch building and mods, but I have a sizeable stash and I now need all the help I can get from after market to have any hope of getting most of them done to a reasonable standard before I pop me clogs. My first ever model, when I was 9, was a 1/72 Catalina kit in which you had to carve the balsa blocks to shape using the plan supplied, you did get metal engines and props though.

TRF

[Pascal]

I wish there was the same amount of aftermarket parts available for large scale cars. Especially in the 1/18 scale.

 

1/18 scale cars are basically ready made models, either mostly metal (diecast zamac), or resin. That means that before you can do any work on your model, you have to disassemble it, remove glue and paint, then start from zero.

 

As for the aftermarket parts for aircraft models : In my opnion it is a good thing that the aftermarket industry keeps coming up with better and easier-to-use / install parts.

 

Some people like to spend hours making every part themselves, others like to add all the possible aftermarket parts to their kits, and finally others like kits that are the shake-&-bake type.

 

I'm glad that our hobby allows us to have such a variety of possibilities and I enjoy looking at all the magnificent build reports, whether it's full scratch, with add-on's, OOB, etc.

 

What it all comes down to (for me) is that everyone can enjoy modelling.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Sincerely

 

Pascal

[LSP_Ray]

Geez, guys: 

How about we stop arguing about who gets who’s point and just agree that everyone is allowed to build their model any way they want and enjoy doing for whatever reasons.

[LSP_K2]

The one thought I have, is that something that's this much so "ready-to-go", may adversely affect the chances one has in competitions, which all of my models are built for. Most judges, including myself, look for craftsmanship skills associated with model building, and this sort of drop-in detail, no matter how nice, could be seen as completely bypassing the skills portion, specifically as it applies (obviously) to 'pit detailing/painting. All other things being equal, scratch building details, with quality treatment of painting skills, will win out over drop-in AM resin and P.E. details, and drop-in pre-detailed, pre-painted AM items will come in after those two. That's my present view anyway.

[ericg]

11 minutes ago, LSP_K2 said:

The one thought I have, is that something that's this much so "ready-to-go", may adversely affect the chances one has in competitions, which all of my models are built for. Most judges, including myself, look for craftsmanship skills associated with model building. and this sort of drop-in detail, no matter how nice, could be seen as completely bypassing the skills portion, specifically as it applies to 'pit detailing/painting. All other things being equal, scratch building details, with quality treatment of painting skills, will win out over drop-in AM resin and P.E. details, and drop-in pre-detailed, pre-painted AM items will come in after those two. That's my present view anyway.

I am with you on that point mate.

I judge at a few shows and if someone uses these then they better make sure the rest of the model is up to the same standard that’s for sure. 
 

I am with Starfighter here. These products take all the skill element out of building models and consign it to ‘Peeling and Sticking’. Yes they look great, but should someone new to the hobby use them? NO! Go and build up your skill set first.