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Hobbyboss B-24: no turret fix in sight

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8 hours ago, Lee White said:

Lazy, no. Perhaps lacking confidence in their own potential as scratchbuilders, likely.

Lee,

 

I'd say you are skimming the surface here.   It's a bit more complex than just "everyone has the inherent talent to fix this problem, so just do it".   I think I'm a decent modeler.  Nothing compared to the masters on this site, but decent.   I can tell you that maybe I could scratch-build a replacement turret (and to be honest, I'm not even sure on this) but two factors come into play:

 

Time - my time is limited and mastering a brand new skill (that will probably never be needed again on anything I'm building) and getting the pieces done to my standards would be a huge investment of my time, one which I wouldn't be prepared to commit to.

 

Enjoyment - I build simply for enjoyment.  From my personal viewpoint, I would get zero enjoyment from undertaking this task.   In reality, I would probably end up putting the entire kit on hold. 

 

Even if I was able to bang out the parts, I suspect that they wouldn't be to my standards, which would result again in the entire kit being put on hold, and the enjoyment meter pegged at firmly at zero.

 

 

 

 

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Yeah - real modelers shouldn't even need this kit anyway - a couple blocks of wood is all a real non lazy modeler should require. 

 

For myself yeah I probably can fix it, but it really pains me to spend $250 on a brand new kit in 2019 (and yeah I know its cheaper outside the USA) and have such a crappy effort from the manufacturer on points like the turrets, wheels, wings, engines, etc. I feel that purchasing the kit is a "reward" to the manufacturer that just tells them hey we can put in minimal effort and the shills will still buy our junk - on our next release we will lower the bar even further, after-all accuracy clearly doesn't matter to our customers.

 

I mean does any other hobby get this kind of response on new expensive items? Gosh my new $250 golf-driver, the shaft is kinda warped and the head misshapen - on golf forums does that person get shouted down as they should fix it themselves you lazy turd - a real non lazy manly-man golfer would! Or your new fishing boat - gosh it leaks and the keel isnt straight - better not complain and ask for the manufacturer to do better as that might hurt their feelings and they may not do any more boat-releases in the future!

 

Going back to this B-24 kit, the sad thing is that I probably will end up buying it in the end especially if it drops in price in the USA - but again doesn't that really send a bad message back to the manufacturer though? It doesn't really push them to improve their product or do anything more, does it?

 

 

Edited by petrov27

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It's just strange to me, that you have a kit in the $250.00 price range, the first B-24 ever in 1/32 and they went about the turrets so cheaply, almost like a toy.  The glazing is wrong on one, both have seam lines running right down the middle of the clear, then you have the huge alignment pins.  As many have mentioned, you can fix the seam with work and sanding (but you should not have to), but you can't take out those huge oversized alignment pins and holes.   I realize that for many there are lots of other issues (wing chord, shape etc), but for me I can live with that, sure it could have been better.  And it's not like the information was not available to them.   On the B-24 J, the nose turret was so unique to the aircraft, so prominent, one of the first things you see when you look at pictures of the aircraft (at least for me). 

 

It would have taken all of 5 minutes to look at different kits of the B-24 J or H in smaller scales and realize a better way to work the turrets.   And give a bit of respect to both the airplane itself and the modelers who will be building it.   I am much more of a build from the box, no scratch build, modeler.  I really don't want to pour resin and try to build a turret when the one in the box should have been better from the start.  Vacuforming it may work, I personally don't like the look of canopies in vacuform, details never seem to be as crisp.  

 

It's obvious to me Hobby Boss, did not care, which is truly disappointing but is also a significant slight to this  modeling community.   This is not 1950, 60 70, etc.  It's a era where all kits are laid out in cad cam or similar processes before any molds are cut.  

 

In the end, it's the only game in town and always will be for a 1/32 B-24.    

 

Bring on the the D. 

 

Paul C 

 

 

 

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I think that if you are about to undertake this build you are about to lose a significant amount of space putting it on display. I firmly believe that any time put into rectifying the turret and other inaccuracies in the kit will be time well spent and will seem small compared to the overall task of building and painting it. It will be a pretty big and visible reminder all the time if you fudge the kit and mess it up.

 

This is why I keep pushing the point of If you lack the skills or time to be able to do things like fixing the turret, then maybe you are better off stashing the kit or not even starting it in the first place. The rest of your build may not look that good either, as we are talking about a large multi engine aircraft that has many details and looks to reasonably demanding, even without the turret factor. You are going to have to blow a lot of time on the kit just doing the basic assembly and painting so some time spent fixing..... modelling... will be time well spent.

 

I had a good look at the kit at our club meeting the other night and think my initial appreciation of the turret fix still stands. Fill all of the holes in the turret with modelling clay, make a copy of it using silicone and then make a resin cast of it. You only need the top third of the turret. Fix and refine the resin cast that you have made and then use it as the master to vac form over. Cut the top off the kit turret and then replace it with the vac form part.

 

 Now you might not know how to mould and cast, or vac form but these are skills that will serve you well later on down the track and are very useful to know. There are plenty of sources of info on how to do this stuff and equipment required isn’t that expensive. As I said, if you are wanting to build this model then you are going to be up for spending a lot of time on it in the first place.

 

just my thoughts,

Eric.

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2 hours ago, Paul2660 said:

It's just strange to me, that you have a kit in the $250.00 price range, the first B-24 ever in 1/32 and they went about the turrets so cheaply, almost like a toy.  The glazing is wrong on one, both have seam lines running right down the middle of the clear, then you have the huge alignment pins.  As many have mentioned, you can fix the seam with work and sanding (but you should not have to), but you can't take out those huge oversized alignment pins and holes.   I realize that for many there are lots of other issues (wing chord, shape etc), but for me I can live with that, sure it could have been better.  And it's not like the information was not available to them.   On the B-24 J, the nose turret was so unique to the aircraft, so prominent, one of the first things you see when you look at pictures of the aircraft (at least for me). 

 

It would have taken all of 5 minutes to look at different kits of the B-24 J or H in smaller scales and realize a better way to work the turrets.   And give a bit of respect to both the airplane itself and the modelers who will be building it.   I am much more of a build from the box, no scratch build, modeler.  I really don't want to pour resin and try to build a turret when the one in the box should have been better from the start.  Vacuforming it may work, I personally don't like the look of canopies in vacuform, details never seem to be as crisp.  

 

It's obvious to me Hobby Boss, did not care, which is truly disappointing but is also a significant slight to this  modeling community.   This is not 1950, 60 70, etc.  It's a era where all kits are laid out in cad cam or similar processes before any molds are cut.  

 

In the end, it's the only game in town and always will be for a 1/32 B-24.    

 

Bring on the the D. 

 

Paul C 

 

 

 

 

 We live in a world where people will choose airlines over a $5 difference in fare and then complain when they don’t receive first class service. Hobby Boss have obviously put as much effort into the kit as their expected cost price allowed in order to generate as many sales to as many different people (skill levels) as possible. They chose to spend minimal time on R&D in order to get you to go into the Hobby shop or order it online and get it home as quickly as possible without batting an eyelid on the price you paid. That modellers now have to wring their hands and gnash their teeth on the time and cost to fix it is not their concern, they have already sold you their kit. You now have to pay the difference or spend the time in other areas (aftermarket) in order to get the kit you want, which may have been the price initially if they had released a flawless kit in the first place.

 

Thank your peers, the consumers for giving us this kit they way it is!

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I would like to agree with Eric's sentiments but at every turn of "all you have to do is..." I heard loud cash register ker-chings.

 

Moulding, casting, making a vacform of said casting — what?!  Even if I had the time I reckon I'd be £35 down on materials for a piece of novice crap that Brassin might do expertly for £12.

 

The truly bizarre thing is that, while I probably have the space to display the Liberator, my wife's taken up both tables in the garage with jam making gear and as a general larder. She's now using my airbrush space to stock up for Easter! The only solace is that's where she keeps the spare gin, port and sherry.

 

Sooo, I'm building 1/48 again which can be done in my sunny study. FGR.2 and RF-4C are in the works.

 

Tony 

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On 2/24/2019 at 4:46 AM, Lee White said:

Lazy, no. Perhaps lacking confidence in their own potential as scratchbuilders, likely.

 

I believe John1 was being ironic.

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19 hours ago, ericg said:

I think that if you are about to undertake this build you are about to lose a significant amount of space putting it on display. I firmly believe that any time put into rectifying the turret and other inaccuracies in the kit will be time well spent and will seem small compared to the overall task of building and painting it. It will be a pretty big and visible reminder all the time if you fudge the kit and mess it up.

 

This is why I keep pushing the point of If you lack the skills or time to be able to do things like fixing the turret, then maybe you are better off stashing the kit or not even starting it in the first place. The rest of your build may not look that good either, as we are talking about a large multi engine aircraft that has many details and looks to reasonably demanding, even without the turret factor. You are going to have to blow a lot of time on the kit just doing the basic assembly and painting so some time spent fixing..... modelling... will be time well spent.

 

I had a good look at the kit at our club meeting the other night and think my initial appreciation of the turret fix still stands. Fill all of the holes in the turret with modelling clay, make a copy of it using silicone and then make a resin cast of it. You only need the top third of the turret. Fix and refine the resin cast that you have made and then use it as the master to vac form over. Cut the top off the kit turret and then replace it with the vac form part.

 

 Now you might not know how to mould and cast, or vac form but these are skills that will serve you well later on down the track and are very useful to know. There are plenty of sources of info on how to do this stuff and equipment required isn’t that expensive. As I said, if you are wanting to build this model then you are going to be up for spending a lot of time on it in the first place.

 

 

For me, 

Not doing the turrets myself have nothing to do with cost, nor effort. I've done quite a bit vac casting , and for me its purely a matter of:

 

Time -  I barely have time at the bench as it is, let alone time enough to invest in the necessary learning/equipment to do clear casting, when after doing many experiments with it, I ended up hating it, even when I got good results. It was just plain NOT fun, in any way, shape or form, & Ill be damned if I'm going to spend the little modeling time I have concentrating on something I hate. 

 

Desire - I have (literally) NO desire to pull my own vac clear parts. Been there, tried that, and hated it.  I got satisfactory results in the end (my Extra canopy) but it was NOT a fun process. I did not enjoy it one single bit. Maybe you enjoy it, but not me, and thats ok, because modeling is supposed to be enjoyable, and enjoyment is different for everyone.

This is one reason I have not even purchased the kit yet. No reason. I have no desire to deal with the clear parts at this time, and doing it myself has 0 interest to me. Putting time into the kit itself re: basic modeling skills, assembly, painting ect, ect, is way, WAY, WAY different than trying to pull satisfactory clear vac parts for 32nd scale models, vac or otherwise.

 

 

Learning a new skill is indeed a great thing, but when the S@#* hits the fan I barely have time to do the modeling I do now, let alone investing in the time and equipment to pull small clear vac parts its a no go. 

 

Also, 

 I have to say, telling someone not to even start the kit because they dont have the time/interest/desire (my case) to cast new turrets and then to say it wont look good if don't fix the turrets, is strictly a matter of opinion, and is right off base IMHO.  There are many people who the turret issue wont bother at all, and what looks good to them, is all opinion as well.

 

Opinions have been stated re: this issue, and suggesting fixes is always welcome, but it would be greatly appreciated if we could all just move on, and everyone build the way we they would like to. 

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  I agree with Out2gtcha. Each to his own some won't care, some will hate them and won't build it. I'm going to build mine crap turrets and all, albate I'm going to do what ever my skills will allow me to do to fix them. This may enclude 3dD printing replacement glass panels out of clear resin in my sons 3D printer. Now I  just have to create a 3D CAD model and print it, holy crap. :help::frantic::doh:

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7 minutes ago, thierry laurent said:

Is it really possible to get a correct result with printed clear resin? 

Ben Schumacher 3D printed the canopy on his 1/32 S-3 Viking. It took a bit of polishing, but it turned out nice.

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Not sure if it was mentioned here already but on local modelforum.cz one fellow states that there will be replacment parts for turrets ditributed within the month from HB ditributors

https://www.modelforum.cz/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=105045&start=2250

 

Quote from his post (translated):

If anyone else is interested - especially those who have already bought or ordered the Liberator model - today, HB's response came to me that the new / corrected (?) turrets parts would begin to be dispatched within a month. And to distributor addresses for CZ....

 

if its true so we should get replacements at least for the frosted parts

jan

Edited by Jan_G

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4 minutes ago, Jan_G said:

Not sure if it was mentioned here already but on local modelforum.cz one fellow states that there will be replacment parts for turrets ditributed within the month from HB ditributors

https://www.modelforum.cz/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=105045&start=2250

 

Quote from his post (translated):

If anyone else is interested - especially those who have already bought or ordered the Liberator model - today, HB's response came to me that the new / corrected (?) turrets parts would begin to be dispatched within a month. And to distributor addresses for CZ....

 

if its true so we should get replacements at least for the frosted parts

jan

 

 

Well thats a dang good start!   Im thinking that is a great start, and might be much easier to correct alignment nubs that are still visible that way  

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