Spitfire Mk1. Differences between Mid and Late

[BarryWilliams]

I have a specific late production Spitfire 1 that I would like to build.  Specifically Bobby Oxspring’s X4170 that was shot down in October 1940, crashing near Capel Le Fern (not far from where the Battle of Britain memorial is now sited). Oxspring survived the war and became an ace.  I have a set of cufflinks made from that aircraft’s Meriin engine and want to display the cuffs alongside a model of the aircraft. 
 

I have been waiting for Kotare to produce a Late production version but I am getting impatient and will make adaptions to a mid-production Kotare Spitfire instead. 

Does anyone know the changes I  need to make please.  
 

 

Edited December 7, 2023 by BarryWilliams

[MikeC]

Interesting project.  The instructions sum up the changes, of which the most obvious is the introduction of the engine-driven undercarriage retraction system, eliminating the hand pump.  Plenty of other changes, but most were incremental, so not necessarily fitted immediately.  I take it you're not fortunate enough to have a photo of your subject? 

 

If it were me, I'd have a look at the list, decide the most likely mods given the timeframe, and take it from there.  The u/c retraction mechanism is available as part of Barracuda 32-003, and no doubt other appropriate aftermarket sets.  HTH

[Palm-tree]

Also waiting for the late version so as to build Richard Hillary's X4277 , (Author of The Last Enemy).

I feel sure it will happen eventually.

[Shoggz]

Well, Richard Alexander has just written a (very good) book all about late Mk.Is and Mk.IIs, so he's definitely done the research!

[Shoggz]

https://wingleader.co.uk/books/spitfirespecial/

 

[DonH]

2 hours ago, Shoggz said:

Well, Richard Alexander has just written a (very good) book all about late Mk.Is and Mk.IIs, so he's definitely done the research!

Yahoo! On order. I love Spitfire books 

[BarryWilliams]

7 hours ago, MikeC said:

Interesting project.  The instructions sum up the changes, of which the most obvious is the introduction of the engine-driven undercarriage retraction system, eliminating the hand pump.  Plenty of other changes, but most were incremental, so not necessarily fitted immediately.  I take it you're not fortunate enough to have a photo of your subject? 

 

If it were me, I'd have a look at the list, decide the most likely mods given the timeframe, and take it from there.  The u/c retraction mechanism is available as part of Barracuda 32-003, and no doubt other appropriate aftermarket sets.  HTH

Many thanks for this.  That’s a great help.  

[Pete Roberts]

Spitfire Mk I X4170 first flew on 10 August 1940. The record states that it was sent to 266 Squadron on 17 September, then 19 Squadron on the same day (!) It was damaged in combat the next day, but quickly repaired and sent to 66 Squadron on 29 September. It was shot down on 25 October but Bobby Oxspring was safe.

 

As Mike has said above, the undercarriage retraction system would be the later engine driven type. The early Spitfires had two flare tubes behind the pilot's seat - this aircraft would have had one, the rear most. It would have had the later 'plastic' seat and a mirror, probably with the box type faring. The box faring was removed from the mirror soon after (around X4174) but this aircraft probably retained it. Station keeping lights were introduced into production around March 1940, but I admit I am a bit confused about this detail as photos don't always support that - hopefully Richard's new book (mentioned by Shoggz above) has information on this. IFF (Identification Friend or Foe) was introduced late September but took a while to be fully implemented; I am not sure when it was introduced into 66 Squadron, but if it was on X4170 there would be a wire on each side from the tip of the tail plane to a point near the centre of the roundel, passing through a dull red grommet in the fuselage sides. Some have suggested that two-step rudder pedals were used during the Battle of Britain - they weren't.

 

X4170 was probably finished in the 'A' scheme upper surface camouflage of dark earth and dark green with sky lower surfaces. By October it would have been carrying lower wing roundels, and the fin flash was probably changed to the smaller variety, 27" high and 24" wide.

 

HTH

 

P.S. - as well as removing the forward most flare tube, you will need to fill the flare door panel line in the lower fuselage for this tube.

Edited December 7, 2023 by Pete Roberts

[monthebiff]

11 hours ago, Shoggz said:

Well, Richard Alexander has just written a (very good) book all about late Mk.Is and Mk.IIs, so he's definitely done the research!

Picked this up at Telford in November,  its an excellent book indeed.

 

Regards. Andy 

[Kagemusha]

If you look at the sprues for the Va, F is for the late I/II,V, G for a II/V, I a Va, and the clear parts is hard to see, so it could be you just require the parts from sprue F.

 

[MikeMaben]

Hi @Pete Roberts, what are station keeping lights ?

[mozart]

1 hour ago, MikeMaben said:

Hi @Pete Roberts, what are station keeping lights ?

As far as I can recall Mike they help pilots to “keep station”, ie know where each other is/are in close formation. 

[dennismcc]

1 hour ago, MikeMaben said:

Hi @Pete Roberts, what are station keeping lights ?

Edgar mentioned them in this post

Posted June 7, 2013

Armoured windscreens were introduced, in the field, in May/June 1940 (Stanford Tuck got his one morning, before a sortie over Dunkirk, when it collected a bullet from a 110's rear gunner, thereby saving his life.)

The exact date of the changeover, from pump to lever retraction, is something of a mystery, but it only appears in an amendment dated April 1940, and there are reports of aircraft, with the old system, still being used throughout the Battle, so it's likely to have remained.

An electrically-heated "Mk.VIII" pressure head was introduced from April 1938, so would be fairly common by 1940 (I'm guessing that this means replacement of the two-pronged item.)

The "upward identification lamp" is shown as being fitted, from the start, in 1938, so it should be there. The station-keeping lamps were fitted on the fuselage, roughly level with the instrument panel, and about halfway down; they were for pilots to hold formation at night. Although StH says March 1940, they actually went into service in November 1940, and were deleted in August 1941.

Mirrors were not introduced until 24-9-40, though pilots were known to have "borrowed" items from the local car showrooms.

New machine guns were fitted at, or just after, the outbreak of war; the new ones had a faster rate of fire, and dispensed with the flash eliminators. Adhesive fabric patches seem to have made their appearance some time during 1940.

Edgar

Here are two examples, I found the upper one after I had deleted them on the 2014 issue Revell Spitfire I and II which I was building as same aircraft, annoying

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

Edited December 8, 2023 by dennismcc

[dennismcc]

Just found more information from Edgar on the ID lights.

 

Posted June 8, 2013

Suspect they would have been red and green; only found out about them while talking to one of the team that rebuilt AR213. They'd found two little windows, in the fuselage, and couldn't fathom them out; eventually they discovered they were the remains of the lights; presumably they were fitted behind the windows, so as to emit only a narrow beam of light. They must have been a nightmare to formate onto; glance away and they vanish. Probably why they lasted less than a year, especially with the failure of the Spitfire as a nightfighter.

Edgar

 

And this

From Spitfire I manual, june 1940

Cheers

 

Dennis

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by dennismcc

[Pete Roberts]

11 hours ago, MikeMaben said:

Hi @Pete Roberts, what are station keeping lights ?

Sorry Mike, should have posted an example but Dennis has covered this well above. They can be very difficult to see in photos at a distance, especially in a less than clear photo.