I'm in a bit of a quandry about something....

[europapete]

Jeese, this is a difficult situation. Good luck at the meeting and our hopes and thoughts are with you.

[MikeMaben]

So you gave it away to be auctioned which infers you don't want it anymore.

Why do you care what happens to it ? If you gave away a puppy, you'd want

it to go to a good home. This is a plastic kit. Am I missing something ?

 

                                   

 

[Confusionreigns178]

1 hour ago, MikeMaben said:

Why do you care what happens to it ?

If the OP had donated money to the cause and someone had kept some of the money, I think there would be a very strong case to be answered. The keeping of the original kit is not very far removed from that scenario. 

 

I suspect that some folks would be very unconcerned to hear about this situation, but could feel very differently if it happened to them....

 

Cheers. 

 

Chris. 

 

PS: I don't want to get into a shouting-match with anyone on here. The OP was concerned enough to post his original question on this site, so he obviously feels annoyed by what's happened. 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Confusionreigns178
Typo correction

[treker_ed]

@Juggernut The essence of the problem is that a donation was made, then the item was swapped, by the person who was storing the items, for one of a lesser value. That at the core would be theft. Does not matter that there was a replacement item put in, the fact is that the original item was retained without permission. The definition of theft is an item or goods being taken without consent, and that is what has happened here. There is no debate about the kit being donated, the problem is what happened afterwards. The OP needs to speak to someone at his club to prevent this from being repeated. There may only be a few dollars difference in the two kits, but what happens if this is repeated again, and again, and again. The amount would soon build up to several hundred dollars, and could quickly become a criminal issue!

Edited September 25, 2023 by treker_ed

[Oldbaldguy]

It’s a matter of principle, something of which we seem to have less and less every day.  No one likes to be scammed, duped, gotten over on.  If no one calls BS, it will continue and likely get worse.

[Tony T]

They were acting on trust. If indeed there was a swap then that's essentially a trustee pilfering a charitable fund. 

 

As OBG says, it's a matter of principle. The air needs clearing, one way or another. 

 

Tony

[Mark_C]

I agree with the vast majority of comments and suggestions.

 

The situation here is functionally equivalent to someone donating $100 to a member to pass onto a fund, and then finding out later only $60 was actually contributed.

 

Something ain't right.

[MikeMaben]

16 hours ago, treker_ed said:

@Juggernut The essence of the problem is that a donation was made, then the item was swapped, by the person who was storing the items, for one of a lesser value. That at the core would be theft. Does not matter that there was a replacement item put in, the fact is that the original item was retained without permission. The definition of theft is an item or goods being taken without consent, and that is what has happened here. There is no debate about the kit being donated, the problem is what happened afterwards. The OP needs to speak to someone at his club to prevent this from being repeated. There may only be a few dollars difference in the two kits, but what happens if this is repeated again, and again, and again. The amount would soon build up to several hundred dollars, and could quickly become a criminal issue!

 Once the kit was donated for auction, the donor relinguishes ownership and has no right or cause for concern regarding the kit.

His consent/permission is no longer relevant. Kits at auction have no monetary value except for the price of one auction ticket

and even 'that' is theoretical. Some kits never get redeemed for a ticket. We've all seen them give auction kits away for free to kids.

Many of you see this as an ethical issue, as the value of the kit was reduced by the auctioneer/swapper.

You can't reduce the value of a donated kit if it has no monetary value to begin with.

[Out2gtcha]

1 hour ago, MikeMaben said:

You can't reduce the value of a donated kit if it has no monetary value to begin with.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on that point.

If I donated an equal sum of money and somehow found out someone stole some of it, I'd be pissed and you better believe I'd say something regardless if it was after I donated it. 

Monetary sum, or item purchased with that monetary sum, that part of it would make 0 difference for me.

Theft is theft, where and when it takes place doesn't change what it is. 

 

I think it's being done the right way, non publicly, so that if there was any theft that person can be identified and delt with appropriately. YMMV

[MikeMaben]

My point is 'there is no sum of money' involved.

Who's losing money here ? Who's losing value ?

 

[Out2gtcha]

13 minutes ago, MikeMaben said:

My point is 'there is no sum of money' involved.

Who's losing money here ? Who's losing value ?

 

 

I'm not sure how raffles run in your club, but generally when we have events, AMPs, Mid level contests, National events, what have you, they generally have specific needs since they need a variety of donations (our annual Christmas exchange being the exception) depending on the event. 

That being said, I've given quite a few kits (and a few bucks here and there) to raffles, over the years but each and every time I did, I purchased said kit from the LHS to fit that particular event or need. 

 

I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else that saying something about this is in fact the right thing to do.

I only know how I  would feel, and since I purchased said kit specifically for that event and for a specific modelers enjoyment, yes I would definitely feel like both I and the potential winner lost.

 

If someone "misplaced" same said donation and acted like it wasn't donated at all, or subbed in a different donation I would also be saying something, but again YMMV.

 

 

[Kagemusha]

1 hour ago, MikeMaben said:

My point is 'there is no sum of money' involved.

Who's losing money here ? Who's losing value ?

 

 

You can flip that argument over and say the person now in possession of the donated kit has gained financially, that's the point.

[treker_ed]

@MikeMaben ownership transferred to the club, not the individual storing the items on behalf of the club. Therefore the definition of theft still applies. The person taking the item DID NOT HAVE PERMISSION to swap the item for one of a lesser value, even if no actual money was involved, there is still a value. If this became a police matter, this is what they would be looking at, the matter of permission, and he did not have it.  The OP is the only other person who knew what he donated so the person swapping obviously thought he could get away with the swap-out. He hasn't, and needs to be brought up on it.

Edited September 26, 2023 by treker_ed

[Mark_C]

6 hours ago, MikeMaben said:

My point is 'there is no sum of money' involved.

Who's losing money here ? Who's losing value ?

 

 

If you really think a kit has no value, try going into your local hobby shop and taking one without paying for it! 

 

The item does not lose its value simply because it is donated; in fact, it's donated BECAUSE it has value, and the charity raffles it (where the punter exchanges money in for the chance to win the kit) or auctions it off (where the punter bids money on the kit.) 

 

In both cases the punters think the item has value, which is why they bid on it, one way or the other.

 

If a less-valuable kit is substituted, the charity loses the value difference; for example, a kit which could have fetched $75 is replaced with a kit which is only worth $40, and the charity loses that $35 because the punters KNOW the kit's value.  The person who stole the kit in the first place makes off with $35 that properly belongs to the charity, and the original donor has a right to be upset because he intended for the charity to have the value of the kit he paid for, and not put money in the pocket of a thief.

 

So, in short, the value losers are the charity and the original donor; the one who gained, gained by stealing the property.

 

 

[Juggernut]

Well, after talking with the club president, I feel a lot better about the entire situation.  He's known the person in question for over 30 years and he assures me that there has to be another explanation about why this happened.  He did not try and convince me I was wrong, he just let me know that he's known this person for a very,  very long time and is not the type of person that would do such a thing.  I too feel a lot better with him saying that because one, I too know the person (albeit not as long) and he never seemed sketchy or dishonest and two, I trust the club president.  I also came to the realization that's it's not a huge sum of money ($40-$45 at most) and while I was more than just a little angry when it happened, that anger has been tempered by time and reason.  Now it's more of a curiosity than anything else but I consider the matter closed and am not going to mention it again.  I won't forget it happened but I won't mention it.

 

So, in the end, it's all good. 

 

Thanks for all the replies, points of view, and allowing me to vent.