Derek B Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 8 hours ago, chuck540z3 said: I'm really digging all the tiny details you are adding or correcting Anthony. I realize that it's a ton of work and I bet you question why you do it at times, but it WILL be worth it all when you are finished! It's already the best Brit Phantom ever made, so it's up to you to establish how high the bar will be, which is a pretty cool situation to be in. Cheers, Chuck Couldn't really put it any better myself... Derek Anthony in NZ and chuck540z3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainM Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 11 hours ago, chuck540z3 said: Hi Iain, There's no real "technique" other than I started using Tamiya Panel Line Accent Color (PLAC) in Black years ago when I was checking for flaws after adding rivets, closing up seams and adding panel lines, where I use clear CA glue extensively. By adding this wash to areas you have modified, small errors in the plastic or CA glue will pop out that you wouldn't see normally, allowing you to fix them while it's easy, rather than after a first coat of paint. I don't want to clutter this thread with pics of my own work, but here's a link to my recent Tempest build where you can see how this method helped me a lot, especially with the addition of the big Barracuda resin nose. Tempest Mk V Build One thing I haven't ever done is to use a true primer, since the enamels and lacquers I generally use don't need one to stick to the plastic. If the plastic is nice and smooth and most of the flaws are fixed, the paint finish can be very clean and smooth without a primer. That, I think, is all about to change with my Hellcat build, where all the large surfaces are very rough and due to the complex "oil canning" irregular surface, sanding it down properly has been a struggle. It looks like I'm about to discover Mr. Surfacer 1000 and 1200! Cheers, Chuck Thanks for that Chuck, much appreciated. I think I'll be going that route, as you say, it's much easier checking for flaws before the paint job You'll love Mr Surfacer! Down that rabbit hole you go........ Anthony in NZ, Derek B and chuck540z3 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony in NZ Posted May 7, 2021 Author Share Posted May 7, 2021 19 hours ago, chuck540z3 said: I'm really digging all the tiny details you are adding or correcting Anthony. I realize that it's a ton of work and I bet you question why you do it at times, but it WILL be worth it all when you are finished! It's already the best Brit Phantom ever made, so it's up to you to establish how high the bar will be, which is a pretty cool situation to be in. Cheers, Chuck Thank you Chuck! That's truly a compliment coming from you... I will push on and do the best I can and try and correct as much as possible, but will try not feel too much pressure on how high the bar gets set as I am really only learning and figuring this out as I go. You are right I do 'wonder why' at times, but comments like this keep me going and the SOD clearer! 10 hours ago, Derek B said: Couldn't really put it any better myself... Derek Due in part and largely to you sir! Left intake is finally fine tuned on the side and I am happy with the result, except the tops/shoulders are a mess Warning, ugly photo! Now we have the corrected front 2/3rd's of the intake section added. But where it attaches to the WH fuselage is all misshapen, quite a mess (this is where using the original Tamiya fuselage would have been easier whereby you could run a cut down the top of the intake shoulder and widen it yourself for a smoother transition. This is due mostly because the WH intakes were far too big and the fuselage line came out too far. Remember the cuts I made in the top to bring the width back down to the correct dimension? Now I have to rebuild the shape. This area is actually very complex and I have studied it for more hours than I dare think! I will do a separate post to show you my findings with the help of a few others here. Anyway, at the moment I am just 'filling the hole' so to speak and then I can get to contouring it all, so dont worry those of you who know the shapes. The 'high point' you will see in this next pic is not where it will end up. As I say I am just trying to build the initial corner/shoulder up at the moment I am really happy I cut the height of the intake down, as I can see now how this will help with the top contour later on When I get closer to the shape I need, I will try and explain the complexities of this area in an update As always gents I appreciate your comments, knowledge and likes, you have no idea how much you are helping me slog through this! Cheers Anthony scvrobeson, Landrotten Highlander, chuck540z3 and 11 others 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony in NZ Posted May 8, 2021 Author Share Posted May 8, 2021 Intake shoulder shapes.... Ok I will try and keep this as simple as I can so as not to confuse anyone like I confused myself. Here are my conclusions with the help of @Derek B @Barry @Chek @scjh Antti K, and a few others over on Britmodeller. I am going to use a few images here I am sorry in advance if I dont credit them properly, it's purely for illustrative purposes. I always knew the Brit Phantom had wider intakes (not as wide as we all thought initially) but had never noticed the appearance of a 'hump' along the intake shoulders until Barry pointed it out to me....oh dear, NO! Ugh, I decided that if I am to do this properly I am going to need to sort it out...here is Barry's image You can be forgiven for never noticing it before like me as at some angles it is not very obvious But at other angles is clear to see, in fact the lower down you get the more pronounced it gets My initial thought was 'where does it come from? Initially I thought at the junction of where the intake top meets the cockpit side, but pics indicate as Derek B advised that no it dosent. See here, that line is perfectly straight So then it must 'bulge upwards', Derek said no it is flat. At first I wasnt sure I believed him (sorry mate!) so I studied it more, and sure enough it is flat across the top, these illustrate See how flat and rounded things are... No upward bulging here...ugh! Then I could see finally what was going on. Because the intakes are wider and the sides at this point of the fuselage are physically wider the curve is deeper or wider too. Not seen from up high but noticeable as you get down to and below the shoulder line I wont go into the complexities of the internal trunking due to the fact the Spey has a different thrust line and bigger diameter So as you can see, I am building up the corners now, not pretty I know but definitely a unique feature of these Phantoms and a 'must' if you are doing one... And the journey begins! One thing I think is important to mention. Remember I cut the height out of the kit intakes, this is really important otherwise I worry you might not capture these odd shapes. I hope this makes sense and not confusing, I tried to keep it simple and this will be a case of using templates, photos and fine tuning until I am satisfied I have it right. Please I encourage others here to add their thoughts too, I may have overlooked explaining something. Thanks for hanging in there team. Cheers Anthony easixpedro, GMK, Derek B and 12 others 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMK Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 Anthony, Both you work & research are bonkers. Excellent commitment to getting an exceptionally difficult shape right. Ten points. Anthony in NZ and Derek B 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek B Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 Great progress and explanation Anthony - I am glad that you came to the same conclusions As I originally commented to you at the start of your conversion, the apparent Spey engined British Phantom upper intake hump is, as far as I can tell, having worked and crawled all over these aircraft for quite a while, is essentially illusional and is very much dependent upon where the intake is viewed from. From ground level - even from a distance - the apparent hump is very noticeable, however when viewed from the top line of the external intake trunking, it is very straight and flat (continuous line). Like you, I believe that it is the curvature of the upper shoulder of the intake which creates this effect and also serves to illustrate that what the eye sees (or interprets) may not be exactly as things really are! I love the work you are doing here and I am fully confident that upon completion, your model will the finest and most accurate Spey engined Phantom in any scale! Cheers Derek Chek, scvrobeson and Anthony in NZ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony in NZ Posted May 8, 2021 Author Share Posted May 8, 2021 7 hours ago, Derek B said: Great progress and explanation Anthony - I am glad that you came to the same conclusions As I originally commented to you at the start of your conversion, the apparent Spey engined British Phantom upper intake hump is, as far as I can tell, having worked and crawled all over these aircraft for quite a while, is essentially illusional and is very much dependent upon where the intake is viewed from. From ground level - even from a distance - the apparent hump is very noticeable, however when viewed from the top line of the external intake trunking, it is very straight and flat (continuous line). Like you, I believe that it is the curvature of the upper shoulder of the intake which creates this effect and also serves to illustrate that what the eye sees (or interprets) may not be exactly as things really are! I love the work you are doing here and I am fully confident that upon completion, your model will the finest and most accurate Spey engined Phantom in any scale! Cheers Derek Thanks mate and thanks for sticking to your guns on that intake shape for me. I could have ended up being lazy and just bulged it upwards thinking I was doing the right thing. I owe you a beer if ever we meet sir! Thanks for you advice and confidence Cheers Anthony Chek, Brett M, scvrobeson and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scvrobeson Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 Love the attention to detail on this one. Most builders would say it's no big deal and would move on to paint, but you're going back for it. Is the gray goop JB Weld or some sort of epoxy? Or putty? Matt Anthony in NZ and Derek B 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony in NZ Posted May 9, 2021 Author Share Posted May 9, 2021 4 hours ago, scvrobeson said: Love the attention to detail on this one. Most builders would say it's no big deal and would move on to paint, but you're going back for it. Is the gray goop JB Weld or some sort of epoxy? Or putty? Matt Thanks Matt! It is JB Weld. A few guys here on LSP recommended it and this is my first time trying it out and I love it. Although the model is starting to get heavy now with the resin centre section, intake trunking and now the great lumps I am putting on the intakes.... Greg W, Derek B and scvrobeson 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonH Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Anthony in NZ said: Although the model is starting to get heavy now with the resin centre section, intake trunking and now the great lumps I am putting on the intakes.... That will be no problem for you - just make a set of metal landing gear struts from scratch. That will be a walk in the park compared to all the other amazing stuff you are doing with the Toom. I am loving it. Derek B, Anthony in NZ and scvrobeson 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony in NZ Posted May 10, 2021 Author Share Posted May 10, 2021 On 5/9/2021 at 3:32 PM, DonH said: That will be no problem for you - just make a set of metal landing gear struts from scratch. That will be a walk in the park compared to all the other amazing stuff you are doing with the Toom. I am loving it. LOL thanks Don, I am sure the plastic ones will hold...hopefully Not much to update except I have got the left intake shapes 'pretty right' I think, I am just doing some tidy up of edges and details and I can spray it with Mr Surfacer and see where I need to go after that. It has taken 2 days solid fine tuning this shoulder area, to the point I am dreaming Phantom intakes LOL Oh Kerry sent me a reprint of the 'tweaked' vari ramp, but when I get the protective masking off the intake I will test them. Cheers and thanks everybody Anthony Greg W, Kagemusha, vvwse4 and 12 others 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monthebiff Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 Excellent stuff Anthony, man that rework looks so ugly in contrast to the rest of the fuselage but will definitely be worth the extra effort getting the shape just so Regards. Andy Anthony in NZ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfighter Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 I am just catching up after my littly hiatus after the birth of my second daughter and man, I've missed a few things in the meantime! Your progress is impressive as usual and the neatness reminds absolutely mind blowing, Anthony. I really hope you can keep the momentum - I am loving every step of this project! CJP, scvrobeson, Anthony in NZ and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony in NZ Posted May 11, 2021 Author Share Posted May 11, 2021 14 hours ago, monthebiff said: Excellent stuff Anthony, man that rework looks so ugly in contrast to the rest of the fuselage but will definitely be worth the extra effort getting the shape just so Regards. Andy LOL, it sure is ugly at the moment....still refining the shape and taking out imperfections. Hope to get Mr Surfacer on soon-ish and see where things are at 2 hours ago, Starfighter said: I am just catching up after my littly hiatus after the birth of my second daughter and man, I've missed a few things in the meantime! Your progress is impressive as usual and the neatness reminds absolutely mind blowing, Anthony. I really hope you can keep the momentum - I am loving every step of this project! Thanks Ben Congratulations on your second daughter, that's awesome! I was wondering where you were...nice to have you around again! Cheers Anthony Derek B and Starfighter 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony in NZ Posted May 12, 2021 Author Share Posted May 12, 2021 Well, I sprayed the first coat of Mr Surfacer on tonight and the shapes are 'not too bad' but there is still more to do with them. At least now I can see what I am doing with the primer on now! Off to bed now Cheers Anthony IainM, KiwiZac, Rainer Hoffmann and 14 others 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now