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Out2gtcha

F-104D Starfighter - 57-1315 - AFFTC Edwards AFB, 1960

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Brian here’s a shot of the USB I’m using for the Corsair. MSM set this up for both the builds I’ve done so far. This shot shows the length for you. Maybe it will fit better? Also you may have more options for sizes because these are so common now. A quick google search turned up one 9.4x7.7cm.

IMG_1930-L.jpg

 

you’re idea for the led down the exhaust through the clear acrylic will look awesome. Can’t wait to see this progress!

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Posted (edited)

Sorry, I have been away from the site.

On 5/9/2019 at 9:53 PM, Chek said:

Sorry to barge in folks, but on the chances that this thread attracts Starfighter fans I have a question.

What's the current consensus on the best model paint equivalent of RAL 9006 Weissaluminium, as used on Luftwaffe Norm 62 undersides.

Sorry for the interruption, the day-glo and metal scheme should look brilliant.

The Hataka White aluminum is what I used. It gives you a bit of metallic with the dusty whiteness of the original.IMG_E2719.JPG

Edited by Bill Cross

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Very nice - really like the 2 seat Starfighter. So many great markings and colour schemes. One day I will add this to my stash - just need to build 399 other models first :-)

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It's crazy looking to me but you seem so comfortable with all of the wiring and battery issues.  Obviously, you have put a lot of thought into this project before ever starting it.

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Thanks all! 

 

14 minutes ago, Thunnus said:

It's crazy looking to me but you seem so comfortable with all of the wiring and battery issues.  Obviously, you have put a lot of thought into this project before ever starting it.

 

 

I actually have, but the wiring itself is all totally painless and very straight forward John. With your skill set, you could add one of these no issues.  Its all plainly marked and separated, and the circuit board does all the work. The connectors are even plainly marked and with only 2 wires per, wrong placement is nearly impossible. 

 

The only thing I really have to actually figure out, is the supply itself. A 9v battery is basically 6 1.5v watch batteries, so the duration of the available run time is diminished compared with 4 AAs, even though these new micro LEDs draw very little power.

 

I have contacted MSM about this, and after a few days got a nice response from the owner of MSM. He indicated he was going to research very (read VERY he said) tiny as to be almost invisible power wires, and was going to let me know.   

 

In the mean time, I have done a bit of research on available 4 AA power packs that I could wire up myself with a reed switch or the like (magnetically operated switch) or maybe even something clever like sliding the lower fuselage strake to turn the lights on and off.

With the shape of the 104, I started thinking that a 2 AA cell pack did fit, but was not enough juice. 

 

The OOB 4 AA side by side (by side by side) pack would not fit:

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRuL0JpnviJ0qs-wCa2WM_

 

So I tried a 4 stack, and that wouldn't fit:

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRBuDA5jIqSQW9rSM5cJSD

 

Since a 2 stack side by side AA pack fit, Im now going to see if I can pick up a 4 AA pack stacked tandem:

 

BL4AA.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Richard from MSM is still looking into  the "invisible" style wires for running along the clear rod, but Im still thinking that because Im going to have to remove the model from the clear rod for transport anyway, and I would have to enlarge (thicken from top to bottom)  my current base I would still like to proceed with my internally powered model. I think it could be interesting. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Bill Cross said:

Sorry, I have been away from the site.

The Hataka White aluminum is what I used. It gives you a bit of metallic with the dusty whiteness of the original.IMG_E2719.JPG

 

Cheers Bill, I did take a look at your build on Brian's suggestion and think you've nailed the Norm 76 scheme.

 

But - and bear in mind I've not seen these Luftwaffe schemes in real life, just photos - my impression is the Norm 62 scheme undersides are more silvery.

In the examples below, both taken in bright light, the upper photo of the Norm 62 scheme looks more metallic, to my eye, while undersurfaces of the Norm 76 in the lower photo look more grey.

40883995603_898ba611e2_o.jpg.

 

I liked the effect that Danny got on his build, seen below which also looks more metallic.

 

AL085dul.jpg

 

He's used the Mr. Paint RAL 9006, which coincidentally is the brand I'll be using for the olive/grey/orange, but it seems nobody has it in stock over here, at least without a ludicrous shipping charge. I just hope the end result matches my expectations!

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Posted (edited)

Chek - the approach I used for the underside of the Norm 72 scheme was first apply a silver base coat (Floquil old silver) then go over this with numerous coats of very thinned camo grey until I achieved the look I wanted. I was happy with the result. I'd post pics, but my 2.5 YO grandson got a hold of the build....  

Edited by Dragon

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Your suggestion is appreciated Dragon.

 

But, RAL 9006 is a government standard colour, and shouldn't require any filter wizardry, other than to imply scale effect and weathering.

And I might want to go for a Norm 72 scheme F-4F at some point, and a consistent out-of-the-bottle colour would be ideal on the big Phantom airframe.

 

The Mr. Paint range is gathering a very good reputation which my limited experience with it so far confirms, so I'll see how it goes when their MRP-9 is available again

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Gents, the kit nearly sent me to the exits of modeling, so I'm happy to see you diverge on paint if you are happy with it. The older scheme (Norm 62) does not interest me, because I like the large amount of grey and greens in the Norm 76. All I can suggest is to be sure to pick up a copy of Danny Corman's book.

BF104GpcovDgr.jpg

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Well this project got a bit more complex.......

I've encountered some issues with getting the IP instruments suitably translucent as to see the back lighting, so I had to call in some reinforcement!

In the form of our own Peter from AirScale! 

I've consulted him, and as par usual, his modeling instincts and talent have saved my posterior.  He is providing some invaluable assistance with the IPs that I likely could not get anywhere else.

 

In the mean time, while Peter works his magic, I have plenty of other things to sort out.

 

I started off by assembling the pilot torso and legs, as well as his seat to get an idea of where I will be as far as how the pilot and observer will sit, and if I will need to do any surgery.

 

Not too shabby at all for the very first dry run

 

20190517_203705-XL.jpg

 

20190517_203717-XL.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Even the position of his legs isnt too bad in relation to the stick and rudder peddles

 

20190517_203721-XL.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

The pilot will have his head a bit down and looking left as seen here taking care of flying the airplane.

The observer (a main point of the display when done) who I have yet to assemble, will have his head thrown back looking up and to the right out of the cockpit having a blast, with his 16mm Paillard-Bolex H-16 Reflex camera in one hand, and the other fist raised to the canopy, likely yelling in his mask.

Camera will have to be scratched, but shouldn't be too hard.

I was initially going to go OOB for the cockpit because of having to back light the side panels, but I soon figured out the side panels are lit from small flexible lamps from above the side panels.

This means I needed to have some more surface details that the OOB panels couldn't provide.

I found Eduards TF-104 color PE kit, and found that if I used the PE IP instead of the OOB one, I could save having to drill any instrument holes. Bonus!

 

With that revelation, I pushed forward with the color PE purchase, then went ahead and removed all of the OOB detail on the side consoles:

 

20190520_163701-XL.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

All for now boys.......the Eduard stuff should be here this week, as well as the 9v battery holders, so I can continue on with getting the internal lighting power source figured out.

 

Cheers!

 

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Thanks Kev. This one is proving fun, but complex. I guess I didn't think Id encounter some of issues I've seen, but its all part of the fun, and interesting aspects to this project. 

 

My main issue atm, is sorting the power for the lighting kit out. I still think I can make it all self contained, which not only would give it a cool factor, but as I have yet to see another self contained light set up like this, it could be unique in the end.  I just think it would look so much better not having wires running outside the clear rod representing the exhaust, and holding  the entire display up.

 

Another reason I'm forging on with the self contained power is transport. The whole model will be approx 15" -20" long, and +17" high, as it will be mounted at a 40 - 45 deg angle up. I really cant see transporting it to any shows or contests fully assembled as the transport box would be super ungainly.   

So Id like to be able to remove the model from the base, and pull the clear rod out leaving it connected to the base without having to mess with any wires. 

 

Since I'm kind of at a standstill with things until I get the Eduard set (arriving sometime this week) and the power supply (also this week sometime) I think I may start in on something unique and off beat like the observers camera.

 

The back seater in the AFFTC birds usually was a camera man or other type of observer they used for flight test recording and overall observational flight recordings.   After doing some research a lot of the cameras used were the 16mm Bolex movie cameras, a late 50s design.

I will be scratching up a 16mm Paillard-Bolex H-16 Reflex camera for my observer:

 

540x360.jpg

 

 

I have quite a few good drawings/3D renderings of all sides. It doesn't have  to be perfect or 100% accurate, it just has to look the part in the observers lap (with the pilot at full throttle shooting skyward, and this being his first ride-along, hes having a bit of fun before doing any recording!)

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