Jump to content
Out2gtcha

F-104D Starfighter - 57-1315 - AFFTC Edwards AFB, 1960

Recommended Posts

On 5/14/2019 at 1:28 PM, Out2gtcha said:

Thanks all! 

 

 

 

I actually have, but the wiring itself is all totally painless and very straight forward John. With your skill set, you could add one of these no issues.  Its all plainly marked and separated, and the circuit board does all the work. The connectors are even plainly marked and with only 2 wires per, wrong placement is nearly impossible. 

 

The only thing I really have to actually figure out, is the supply itself. A 9v battery is basically 6 1.5v watch batteries, so the duration of the available run time is diminished compared with 4 AAs, even though these new micro LEDs draw very little power.

 

I have contacted MSM about this, and after a few days got a nice response from the owner of MSM. He indicated he was going to research very (read VERY he said) tiny as to be almost invisible power wires, and was going to let me know.   

 

In the mean time, I have done a bit of research on available 4 AA power packs that I could wire up myself with a reed switch or the like (magnetically operated switch) or maybe even something clever like sliding the lower fuselage strake to turn the lights on and off.

With the shape of the 104, I started thinking that a 2 AA cell pack did fit, but was not enough juice. 

 

The OOB 4 AA side by side (by side by side) pack would not fit:

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRuL0JpnviJ0qs-wCa2WM_

 

So I tried a 4 stack, and that wouldn't fit:

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRBuDA5jIqSQW9rSM5cJSD

 

Since a 2 stack side by side AA pack fit, Im now going to see if I can pick up a 4 AA pack stacked tandem:

 

BL4AA.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Richard from MSM is still looking into  the "invisible" style wires for running along the clear rod, but Im still thinking that because Im going to have to remove the model from the clear rod for transport anyway, and I would have to enlarge (thicken from top to bottom)  my current base I would still like to proceed with my internally powered model. I think it could be interesting. 

 

 

Here is an idea, make the batteries like a flashlight tube, all four in a row, then make them removable from the tailpipe. use a 2 pin molex connector at the end so it can be unplugged (cut off the retaining tang), and the whole shebang is attached to the stand. You can buy styrene tube in large enough diameter to put AA or AAA batteries inside.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks all, for stopping in on me and taking the time to comment. 

 

On 5/28/2019 at 8:50 AM, 1to1scale said:

Here is an idea, make the batteries like a flashlight tube, all four in a row, then make them removable from the tailpipe. use a 2 pin molex connector at the end so it can be unplugged (cut off the retaining tang), and the whole shebang is attached to the stand. You can buy styrene tube in large enough diameter to put AA or AAA batteries inside.

 

I did actually try that configuration out too (IE, all 4 AA batteries in line) but there are even more problems with this setup after it makes room around the fuselage I found:

 

1 - Putting the AAs in line does make room for and solve the problem of how to get more room around the batteries for all the electronics, but once you put them in that config, then are too long and intrude on the space for the clear rod.

As I'm putting the whole model on a stand, and that stand is 1 7/8" clear rod that will be stuffed up the tailpipe to not only hold the model up, but be a simulated exhaust as well. In order to support the model, the rod will have to come up beyond the rear engine compartment line, so there is no chance of breaking the model off at that point. The batteries in an in line config would extend way beyond the point where I would need them to stop.

 

2 - Because the model will be nearl 21" long from exhaust to pitot not including the clear rod sticking out which will be at least 2 - 3 inches add to that, and compound that with the height of the model because it will be mounted on the base at a 40 deg angle upwards, you get a very ungainly display model that will be too high for my current display cabinet. I will have to mod one of my shelves just to get it to fit................this leads me to the second issue with the inline configuration: If I put the inline config in, and use a micro-Deans plug (R/C car connectors that are super DUPER small, extremely robust and cant be put on backwards) or Molex connectors, I still will have to disconnect the wires each and every time I want to take it to a competition,  contest or display, as I need to make the model removable from the stand as it will be way too big and ungainly as it sits when done. 

 

 

I really want to keep all this self contained even though its a bit more work, as I really dont want to have to remove unplug/re-plug any wires each and every time I want to transport the model.

If I can make everything internal like I want, I will simply be able to lift the model off the clear stand when done, easy peasy.    I will have a removable hatch for the 9v battery, and it will be held on my RE magnets, and there will be a tube of either PVC, aluminum or brass in the tail pip that the clear rod will be stuck into.

 

Ive got some progress pics to show where Im at so you can get an idea of what I am going to do.............

 

Pics in a minute  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only real disadvantage to the 9v setup VS the 4 AA setup is run time.    Per MSM, the run time of the lighting animation is shorter than 4 AA setup. However, I believe because of the low overall draw of the LEDs, that even with a 9v setup the animation time will still be long enough for displays and contests, since I wont have it on all the time. 

 

First thing I did over the long weekend was to glue the rear empennage halves to their respective fuselage halves, VS trying to glue the forward fuselage together and then glue the rear empennage section of the fuse  to it.  I also noticed at the same time that after I glued on the speed brake doors, they were a bit sunken in, and about 1/2mm too deep, so while I was at it, I used some PPP (Perfect Plastic Putty) to fill the speed brakes, which I will later re-scribe after sanding:

 

20190528_112327-XL.jpg

 

20190528_112333-XL.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Next, after receiving the 9v battery case, I started back in on my experiments on powering the system. I think the 9v is the solution I've been looking for!  

It has the right size I need, and after full power tests, I can confirm how long the battery will last with all the LEDs powered.  

 

First things first, I know for sure, no matter the actual power source, I will need access to all this from the outside. A hatch had to be created to allow access to replace the 9v battery, and the obvious choice was the MLG doors. 

After initial dry fit trials, I found the MLG door fit to be excellent actually, so I proceeded with using them as the new hatch for the system. The MLG bay, with two bulkheads around it fit so nice, that I decided to keep the internal bulkheads so that the hatch will stay more aligned in the end. The fit of the MLG bay and bulkheads is really nice:

 

20190526_231013-XL.jpg

 

 

 

 

After more dry fit trials, I glued all 5 of the MLG door parts together to make a single solid part,  reinforced with styrene strips:

 

20190526_230958-XL.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

After once again going through extensive dry-fit sessions, I found the fit of the hatch after assembly also really good, save a bit of a gap at the back of the hatch that I will fill later with styrene and filler:

 

20190526_230705-XL.jpg

 

20190526_230709-XL.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

After removing the hatch and disassembling the unit once again, I made some modifications to the hatch; cutting the tab off the front, and cutting down the  tab in the rear, along with its corresponding hole in the fuselage, so the rear was a snug fit that slides in and holds solidly, and the front just lays down lightly on the front edge (later to be held on with magnets):

 

20190527_164012-XL.jpg

 

20190527_164018-XL.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

You can see here the hatch seated with its rear tab in place and front tab that will be cut off that normally fits into the slot below it:

 

20190527_163958-XL.jpg

 

 

Here you can get an idea of how the hatch will lift off after the front tab was cut off, although in the final config I will have to push down the trailing edge first to get it to catch, then lower the front onto the magnets:

 

 

 

20190526_230755-XL.jpg

 

 

20190526_230747-XL.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

When I get the internal bulkheads configured like I need them, I will cut out the center section of the MLG floor, keeping the outer edges so the hatch will have a place to set on once finished, yet I will still be able to remove the battery.

 

I did some gluing and cutting of the internal bulkheads yesterday, and it appears the size is about right for removal and placement of the battery, I will do more testing tonight on the power supply itself, now that I have it wired up, and ready to plug into the circuit board. 

 

Now I just have to find out what kind of switch I want to use to proceed with the full electrical tests. More pics later!

 

Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow...this build is getting complicated! You're going to need an electrical engineering degree to run the wiring! And the pilot needs his engineering degree to fly it!

 

Cheers...Ron

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, aircommando130 said:

Wow...this build is getting complicated! You're going to need an electrical engineering degree to run the wiring! And the pilot needs his engineering degree to fly it!

 

Cheers...Ron

 

 

Thanks Ron..............I kinda knew going in this was going to get weird and complex from the jump with all the stuff I was thinking about! :lol:   As it turns out, I've had to kind of think on my feet a bit to accomplish what I want.  Im still in that stage, and even got help I didnt know I needed from the likes of Peter at AirScale.  I haven't hammered everything out 100% yet,  but things are slowly but surely falling into place. 

 

Cheers, 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice progress Brian. Maybe I'm a little bit late but have you considered this kind of batteryclip for the 9V battery. It uses almost no space and easy removable formchangingbthe battery.

 

5FKC7C.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks again guys!

 

3 hours ago, Fvdm said:

Nice progress Brian. Maybe I'm a little bit late but have you considered this kind of batteryclip for the 9V battery. It uses almost no space and easy removable formchangingbthe battery.

 

5FKC7C.jpg

 

 

I did. Actually it would have been the ideal solution as you are right, it takes up the least amount of room for sure, the only issue is that to use the magnetic system I wanted to use to keep it in place, and to be able to easily remove it, I would have had to put the magnets directly on the 9v battery. The 9v setup itself is not too bad room wise, so Im hoping this all works out like I think it will.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is the beginnings of the inner battery shelf:

 

20190601_144242-XL.jpg

 

20190601_144246-XL.jpg

 

 

 

This is going to get a LOT more modifications, but this is a good start, and things seem to be lining up space wise too.

 

The next obstacle to overcome is the mount for the clear rod. I first thought I could just go to the hardware store and purchase a brass, or copper or even PVC tube to fit the clear rod, but alas, there are NO 7/8" tubes of any material available locally, and I really need to see how the rod would fit before purchase.

 

Quite dejected, standing at Home Depot (my last stop after looking at about 6 places) about to head back home, I thought to myself "damn, I cant find anything that matches the size I need.......hell the only thing that matched at all was the damn OOB engine tube..."

 

A light bulb went off at that moment!

I went back home and assembled the OOB engine tube.

Sure enough, the clear rod fit really snuggly inside the engine tube, it just will need to be cut off and have some bulkheads built to support it:

 

20190601_144305-X2.jpg

 

20190601_144320-XL.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

I will be building some bulkheads today to see if I can cut it off and get it supported in the position I need it.

 

I also finally found a suitable slide switch too. Its exceptionally small, just like I needed:

 

20190601_142501-X2.jpg

 

20190601_142555-XL.jpg

 

 

I'll have to do some more wiring and testing to incorporate the switch in the area I need it.

 

Cheers till you're older!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Radio Shack is gone. All but a very small online presence. Hobbytown franchise made a deal to buy remaining inventory and sell through their stores.

Edited by steel_tiger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, aircommando130 said:

Wow! I didn't think Radio Shack was around anymore! My dad loved that place!

 

Cheers...Ron

 

1 hour ago, steel_tiger said:

Radio Shack is gone. All but a very small online presence. Hobbytown franchise made a deal to buy remaining inventory and sell through their stores.

 

 

Exactly......but, that on-line presence is gaining some traction, and apparently Hobby Town is now getting in some on-line stock as well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This time around, I took the measurements I needed from the engine tube, and cut it off at the length I needed. I then capped off the internal end with a suitably sized piece of very thick styrene sheet to support it, which eventually will be secured to an internal bulkhead. 

I have also taped on the Eduard resin exhaust can for measurement purposes too:

 

20190602_144648-XL.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

There are some minor gaps around the tube, as I didnt take a ton of time to cut it out since its never ever going to be seen again, but the end it purely flush with the end of the tube, and that is what I needed.  The seem running down the center of the exhaust tube is what I am going to use to guide the tube installation, to make sure its centered side to side.

The gaps around the tube will be filled for strength once attached prior to gluing things in:

 

20190602_144652-XL.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

With the resin exhaust taped on,  and the above styrene cutout now glued onto the engine tube, and with the internal bulkhead temporarily taped inside,  I did an experiment and taped all that together, then taped the fuselage together to see how the angle of the exhaust/mounting rod would look...........

 

Not too bad me thinks!!

 

20190602_151521-XL.jpg

 

20190602_151527-XL.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

The angle will be changed slightly to correct a tiny bit of down angle to the rod, then the internal bulkhead that the engine tube will be attached to will be glued into the fuselage permanently after I drill the hole for the exhaust LED.

The next challenge will be starting the process for getting the interior painted. The lighting setup calls for priming the inside, then likely some chrome paint to reflect all the light back inside VS having it bleed through the plastic.

Will need to work on the order I want to get that done in, as it all has to be inserted and painted prior to any of the engine mounting stuff getting fitted permanently. 

 

Cheers! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...