Trumpeter English Electric Lighting F1/3

[BloorwestSiR]

4 hours ago, mozart said:

I’d be willing to fork out a bob or two for an Echelon Lightning though.

I know where there's a couple of them and am just waiting for them to come up for sale. Hopefully it will sometime soon.

[mozart]

7 hours ago, BloorwestSiR said:

I know where there's a couple of them and am just waiting for them to come up for sale. Hopefully it will sometime soon.

Well if you don’t want both Carl, I can find a home for t’other! 

 

Belay that sailor, courtesy of Lothar an Echelon Lightning should be winging its way to me shortly! Woohoo, how exciting. 

Edited July 27, 2019 by mozart

[TimHepplestone]

19 hours ago, wunwinglow said:

Some things really do just glare as wrong though. The canopy and windscreen is way too high, way too fat,  and a quick look at a couple of photos will show how off it its. But it can be corrected if you want to, and there have been several projects here on LSP that show what can be done, as well as some impressive builds straight from the box. It is undeniably a Lightning!!  And they seem to hold their value too, so even if you do decide to sell it, you shouldn't loose out. In fact, I'd give it good, smoke free, loving home, if you ever want it rehousing!!

 

Tim

Thanks Tim and thanks for posting this pic

[Iain]

I try to avoid commenting on these kits when people build them as I don't want to put anyone off - and they do look impressive when built straight from the box.

 

However - you did ask...

 

Where do I start?

 

• Nose intake ring - too deep and doesn't reach rest of intake
• Canopy is just about the wrong shape in every direction - and way too wide at sill
• Cockpit opening too wide/too low - see above
• Spine - wrong shape in plan and missing subtle shape behind canopy (Echelon kit misses some of this too)
• Fin - F3/F6 wrong shape/angle
• Jetpipes - poor - fuselage sculpting too pronounced
• Belly tanks  - F6 completely wrong shape - too short/fat
• Belly Tank F1 - again too short
• Fuselage - too short - needs plug
• Wing thickness - F6 about right - F1/3 around 50% too thick
• Leading edges wrong shapes when viewed from front
• Flaps wrong shape
• Gear bay openings - shape issues
• Gun ports all need re-doing
• Gear legs too long
• Tailplane wrong plan shape on trailing edge
• Other minor tweaks
• Probably a few other things I've forgotten

 

I'm the guilty party that's been working on possible corrections - have spent a huge amount of time so far - and kept finding new issues at every turn - unfortunately the Lightning is one of my favourite aeroplanes... I stopped following a conversation at Telford a few years back - but can't go into any detail - however I have recently re-started playing with them again - but can't promise if/when they'll see light of day.

 

I'm strictly an amateur when it comes to producing anything model-wise for market - and my enthusiasm tends to ebb and wane...

 

Earlier mentions of the Aires nozzle set and having to hack the fuselage - they are a pretty accurate cross section - I have draft patterns that fit perfectly with the Aires set and fuselage - subject to removing and replacing the relevant panel in the kit.

 

Canopy is probably the single biggest thing - but correct this - and you'll have to correct the sill area - and spine behind.

 

I can't see Trumpeter ever re-tooling - and would love to see Revell have a go - but doubt they ever will.

 

By the way - the Trumpeter kit matches a certain set of published drawings perfectly - unfortunately they are completely wrong.

 

I'll stay out of this thread now 

 

Iain

 

 

 

[Troy Molitor]

Not really a blow torch guy but this bird is certainly impressive.  I hope somethings comes of this article because it always great to see one finished.   What a looker she is .   All the best going forward gent’s.  

 

Troy.  

[Chek]

I'm lucky enough to have acquired an Echelon kit which seem to appear as a result of estate sales. Which mine actually was.

 

Unfortunately it seems the Trumpy kit is likely to be the only release by a major manufacturer for this generation at least. And yes, a Revell kit by for instance the Ju 88 design team would have been light years ahead of the Chinese team in both basics and finesse. 

 

However, as I would really like a short tank triangular fin companion to the heavyweight F6  (why did they never strap 4 x AIM-9Ls a'la Crusader to it in the early '80s? Yeah yeah i know, short life expectancy), I think the most likely route will be via an increasingly rare Trumpy kit mated with Iain's correction sets.

[TimHepplestone]

15 hours ago, Iain (32SIG) said:

I try to avoid commenting on these kits when people build them as I don't want to put anyone off - and they do look impressive when built straight from the box.

 

However - you did ask...

 

Where do I start?

 

• Nose intake ring - too deep and doesn't reach rest of intake
• Canopy is just about the wrong shape in every direction - and way too wide at sill
• Cockpit opening too wide/too low - see above
• Spine - wrong shape in plan and missing subtle shape behind canopy (Echelon kit misses some of this too)
• Fin - F3/F6 wrong shape/angle
• Jetpipes - poor - fuselage sculpting too pronounced
• Belly tanks  - F6 completely wrong shape - too short/fat
• Belly Tank F1 - again too short
• Fuselage - too short - needs plug
• Wing thickness - F6 about right - F1/3 around 50% too thick
• Leading edges wrong shapes when viewed from front
• Flaps wrong shape
• Gear bay openings - shape issues
• Gun ports all need re-doing
• Gear legs too long
• Tailplane wrong plan shape on trailing edge
• Other minor tweaks
• Probably a few other things I've forgotten

 

I'm the guilty party that's been working on possible corrections - have spent a huge amount of time so far - and kept finding new issues at every turn - unfortunately the Lightning is one of my favourite aeroplanes... I stopped following a conversation at Telford a few years back - but can't go into any detail - however I have recently re-started playing with them again - but can't promise if/when they'll see light of day.

 

I'm strictly an amateur when it comes to producing anything model-wise for market - and my enthusiasm tends to ebb and wane...

 

Earlier mentions of the Aires nozzle set and having to hack the fuselage - they are a pretty accurate cross section - I have draft patterns that fit perfectly with the Aires set and fuselage - subject to removing and replacing the relevant panel in the kit.

 

Canopy is probably the single biggest thing - but correct this - and you'll have to correct the sill area - and spine behind.

 

I can't see Trumpeter ever re-tooling - and would love to see Revell have a go - but doubt they ever will.

 

By the way - the Trumpeter kit matches a certain set of published drawings perfectly - unfortunately they are completely wrong.

 

I'll stay out of this thread now 

 

Iain

 

 

 

Thanks Iain. I’ve has a look at your thread addressing the corrections. Some very impressive work there . Would love to see you get back into it. That degree of plastic surgery  is certainly above my mediocre skills. Definitely some food for thought here

[Jasta 14 addict]

Busy on a F.6 and...................it's a great kit..........with some extra's added.  That said, i don't really care about other people reviews on the net, simply because i don't accept that those reviews are done by experts after all. We are all modellers, sharing a hobby in which everyone build's their model in different way's, no matter if it's having a wrong shaped canopy or not, to be honest, i don't care really, because i can't sit underneath that canopy......luckily

 

So, build the damn thing and have fun with it, after all you don't need to fly it, it's just sitting on your shelf so you can enjoy it. Except for those rivet counters of course.

[tomprobert]

A very simple mod you can do to improve the overall look of the Trumpy kit is to shorten the main gear legs by approx 3mm. 

 

This gives the model the correct tail-down sit and makes a huge difference for minimal effort. I have built 3 of these kits: two standard F6s and an F3 that I converted to a T4. The first F6 I did I didn’t mod the gear legs but did on the next two - the difference is definitely noticeable and well worth doing. 

 

Tom

[Chek]

4 hours ago, DannyVM said:

... it's just sitting on your shelf so you can enjoy it

 

You've never built a kit which disappointingly fails to capture the character of its original subject?

And then actively annoys you every time you look at it?

 

Lucky (or undiscriminating) you.

[nmayhew]

accuracy really matters to me on *some* projects, but not on others; in all projects, however, I like to know whether stuff is accurate or not, and then I can make my own choice

 

the OP asked about it, was told by a SME the pitfalls, so he knows and can go into the project with his eyes open

 

re the Lightning, I'm probably with him on this; yes the Trumpy kit has some howling mistakes, but I'll probably build it as is anyway, save for a resin cockpit etc

 

let's not get into a rivet counter vs assembler vs real modeller tail spin etc etc

 

having just read the latest update on Jennings' Mother, all the other stuff seems a bit irrelevant to be honest

 

I'm in a "let's all play nice" kind of mood 

 

 

[Out2gtcha]

For me, I look back on previous builds I didnt do so well on, and think of them as benchmarks as to where my skills were previously. If I just outright messed a model up, I don't think it would actually make it to the display case but rather the SOD.

[Jasta 14 addict]

8 hours ago, Chek said:

 

You've never built a kit which disappointingly fails to capture the character of its original subject?

And then actively annoys you every time you look at it?

 

Lucky (or undiscriminating) you.

Nope never. When i build a kit, i know what dis-advantages are, so when i start one, i build it and enjoy it. When sitting on a shelf, i will see a Lightning F.6 standing in front of me, whether or not it has it's fault's. Don't get me wrong, i respect everybody's choice and i use also aftermarket set's, but just to give the model a more realistic look regarding details, not regarding shape issues. Never done that and i will never do it at this way.

[thierry laurent]

Well, I guess this depends essentially on the relationship you have with a specific plane type. I cut and transformed the Matchbox Spitfire everywhere to get an acceptable Final Seafire as this is one of my favourite planes of all times. And, believe me, that kit is far worse than the Trumpeter Lightning!

 

On the other hand, I know this is an heresy but I do not really like the Lightning. To me, it is just a very ugly beast! So, I would never touch the Trumpy Lighning dogs, even with a 3 feet pole!

 

However, this is a major cold war topic that had an important role in the development of the British aerospace industry. Accordingly, if a state of the art kit of the type was released, I would probably get it...

 

So, I think this is very variable for most if not all of us.

 

Thierry

[Tony T]

The Lightning's bizarre layout means it could only have been designed in Britain or the Soviet Union. 

It's those strange design elements that make it so attractive. I believe you need to have seen them flying in the natural metal era to appreciate them fully. 

 

The Trumpeter kit looks nice with just a couple of minor tweaks: shortening the MLG and moving the wings back 3-4mm. In reality, my childhood memories of them are of shiny metal machines whizzing through the air in a blur, and — oh boy! — does the Trumpeter knock the socks off the Airfix 1/72 Lightning I bought in 1965, or Frog F.6 one built seven years later. Way better.

 

A lot of the English Electric Lightning is about nostalgia. And the fact it's from that generation of metal fighters that smelled of oil and leather, like a big old motorbike. 

 

Tony