Thoughts about Possible Future Kotare Releases - NOT a wishlist

[Archimedes]

5 hours ago, thierry laurent said:

Five 1/32 190A kit families were already released. One is totally outdated (Hasegawa gen1 rebranded by Revell), one is ok but is OOP and asks for elbow grease (PCM), another one - the Hasegawa gen2 - is globally correct, easy to build, somewhat simplified and available here and there, still another  one - the Revell gen2 - that is more detailed, not very expensive and generally available and finally you have the new series from ZM. So, that specific market is rather crowded with two quite recent detailed and accurate kits launched by competitors. The question here is: if most people already have one, two or three varieties or oranges and mandarines, are they still going to buy expensive tangerines...? The D9 market is different. We have three outdated kits from Revell, Hasegawa gen1 and gen2 (the hybrid kit) with just one acceptable and not very detailed one (Hasegawa gen3 recently re-released by Hobby2000). This looks more promising to me as there is no release agenda from ZM.

That is a really good analysis Thierry. When there are already players in the market it shows that there is a market one can enter: it does not mean that all of it has been eaten up by those competitors nor does it mean the new entrant cannot displace the competition (because they can). Were I running Kotare I would be looking at getting any data I could on the top selling models in the scales the company was interested in selling. Knowing that landscape would tell the company if a) there were any obvious gaps and, potentially b) whether the market was already saturated. This would then help shape the release strategy.  There are existing examples of the A series of the Fw190 and deep research done by Arthur Bentley and others on the early Wurgers. Not so much for the D series. So, yes, there are many competitors out there (Hasegawa, Revell and Z-M in 1/32 not forgetting  Border’s 1/35 offering). Border are already a disruptor in the LSP market but Kotare may be planning to be one too. Their strategy may be to enter spaces where there is no serious competitor (the Spitfire Mk1a and Bf109-K4 fit that description) or they may go after competitors’  market share (and an Fw190 may do just that).

 

Thanks for your post - 

 

Kind regards,

Paul

 

[thierry laurent]

Another dimension to consider is the availability of good documentation. I think the fact most airframes covered by Arthur Bentley drawings were kitted as detailed and accurate 1/32 kits during the last 15 years is not random ...  I know some model companies don't care if it is complicated to gather relevant sources. This is the case for some Chinese producers like Trumpeter as they just work with what they find and it may be good or bad and sufficient or not. This is also the case for a company like Kotare that is at the opposite end of the spectrum and will allocate the required means to collect as much data as possible even if that is not easy. I'm amazed to observe how some well-known planes are so badly covered in detail. We may still have some preserved airframes here and there but this is just sufficient to ensure that general shapes are ok. In that perspective it is somewhat weird to observe how bad can be the Invader whereas the Devastator is quite good! For the rest you need time to assess wartime sources as artefacts are rarely time capsules. Hopefully the guys want to work as correctly as possible with some SME. In that perspective I will probably buy whatever they release!

[Pup7309]

Interesting. Following from Wingnuts 

their research which shows in instructions is gold standard. So serious modellers will make the stretch to buy their kits. More casual or budget conscious might go for the Revell or Hasegawa 190 (if available) disclaimer: don’t really know how much others compare in price but assume it’s less expensive. 
 

Anyway it will be very interesting to see what they bring out next- possibly this year? 

[RBrown]

I think a Fw 190D makes sense.  The ancient Revell and the old Hasegawa kits are not contenders and the current Hasegawa offering has some issues with the cowling, fuselage gun blisters, and canopy.   However the potential for a rival from ZM may be cause for Kotare to avoid this aircraft.

 

Another choice would be a Hawker Typhoon.  Perhaps not quite as popular as the Fw 190D, but Kotare would have 100 percent of the market for this aircraft.

 

I think the a P-51B would be a very popular but competition from ZM is just around the corner, so perhaps not

 

 

 

 

[LSP_Kevin]

42 minutes ago, RBrown said:

I think the a P-51B would be a very popular but competition from ZM is just around the corner, so perhaps not

 

 

As I noted earlier, though, they'd be very different kits, catering to very different modelling preferences. A comparison might be made with the ZM and Revell P-51D kits - one with all the bells and whistles, and aimed at detail freaks, the other a simpler kit with more of a focus on accuracy and buildability (not that the Revell P-51D necessarily fulfils all those criteria, but you get the idea). I think there's room for both approaches, and I would probably buy both.

 

Kev

[Out2gtcha]

12 minutes ago, LSP_Kevin said:

 

As I noted earlier, though, they'd be very different kits, catering to very different modelling preferences. A comparison might be made with the ZM and Revell P-51D kits - one with all the bells and whistles, and aimed at detail freaks, the other a simpler kit with more of a focus on accuracy and buildability (not that the Revell P-51D necessarily fulfils all those criteria, but you get the idea). I think there's room for both approaches, and I would probably buy both.

 

 

This is a good point, as I do like ZM kits and have built several, but some of the internal detail is lost on me since I'm not an open panels/interior exposed kind of model builder. 

I'd prefer a model focused on exterior shape and dimensional accuracy.

Not to say ZM kits aren't accurate, but I feel Id like more of the cost and R&D to be put to the overall accuracy of the models looks.

[LSP_K2]

On 1/25/2024 at 5:54 AM, Borsos said:

I‘m just wondering, regarding the title of this topic, in what way this is NOT a wishlist … 

 

Granted, there may be a thin line between the two, but what I've seen so far seems to be well thought out ideas as to what Kotare might conceivable do (the original point of the OP), vs what some might like to see in the form of really far out subjects, which indeed delve into the area of a wish list, so I think the majority here are definitely on track with the original intent.

[CharmyDown]

1 hour ago, RBrown said:

 

Another choice would be a Hawker Typhoon.  Perhaps not quite as popular as the Fw 190D, but Kotare would have 100 percent of the market for this aircraft.

My very thoughts.

After rummaging through the stash to locate my Revell  Typhoon with all it's various AM bits, I thought this would be a good candidate for a Kotare release.

Maybe not thier next release, but certainly worth future consideration.

[Pup7309]

2 hours ago, LSP_K2 said:

 

Granted, there may be a thin line between the two, but what I've seen so far seems to be well thought out ideas as to what Kotare might conceivable do (the original point of the OP), vs what some might like to see in the form of really far out subjects, which indeed delve into the area of a wish list, so I think the majority here are definitely on track with the original intent.

Exactly it’s what you think realistically what they will do not some fantasy of what you want. 

[MikeMaben]

Posted many times since long ago ...

 

comment.
    
ZM's schedule :
Fw190A-3 Basic
Fw190A-4 SWS
Fw190A-5/6/7 Basic
Fw190A-8 SWS
Fw190D-9 SWS

 

... so they do have an 'agenda' , or at least they did.

 

[Pup7309]

2 hours ago, MikeMaben said:

Posted many times since long ago ...

 

comment.
    
ZM's schedule :
Fw190A-3 Basic
Fw190A-4 SWS
Fw190A-5/6/7 Basic
Fw190A-8 SWS
Fw190D-9 SWS

 

... so they do have an 'agenda' , or at least they did.

 

So Kotare could do a D-9 or A-8 no probs. I think they will do a p-51 b,c  even if someone else like GWH or ZM have it planned. And a D. 

Edited January 27 by Pup7309

[Christa]

As many of us know, two projects are underway to produce airworthy Hawker Typhoon aircraft, Typhoon Legacy's JP 843 in Canada and The Typhoon Preservation Group's RB 396 in UK. Each of those projects hold, and are gathering, a wealth of detailed knowledge, perhaps with some value for a new Typhoon kit producer. Each has attracted significant funds from numerous supporters, perhaps of relevance for sales of a new Typhoon kit release. TVAL links with WnW hinted that exact airworthy restored, rebuilt or replica aircraft assist model producers.

 

Also, the only original Hawker Typhoon is in the RAF Museum's collection, usually displayed at Hendon, London, so size, shape and detail issues may not be too hard to resolve.

 

Both Airfix 1/24 Hawker Typhoon kits' current prices have fluttered well above £200, so it may be that a Kotare quality 1/32 Typhoon would be excellent value for money, BUT, a Kotare quality North American P 51 B Mustang might sell more copies, quicker.

 

 

[Tony T]

I really hope you P-51B fans get what you want very soon as the endless petulance has been driving others insane for years.

I'm sure it would sell by the container load.

Personally, not interested, but please somebody make the P-51B to shut them up!

 

Tony

[Martini_Man]

7 hours ago, MikeMaben said:

Posted many times since long ago ...

 

comment.
    
ZM's schedule :
Fw190A-3 Basic
Fw190A-4 SWS
Fw190A-5/6/7 Basic
Fw190A-8 SWS
Fw190D-9 SWS

 

... so they do have an 'agenda' , or at least they did.

 

 

IF the - yet unknown - basic version of ZM focused only on accuracy and ease of buildability, then these kits could be compared to Kotare's approach.

 

But as ZM's Dora will only get the overly complex SWS treatment, the way is wide open for Kotare to release an easy to build, accurate Fw190D-9 (or D-11/13 which ZM will not touch) without any extra bells and whistles!

Edited January 27 by Martini_Man

[fastterry]

After 11 pages you guys still haven't got it. Kotare is busily cutting moulds for a 1/32 Short Sunderland. Well Kiwis and Aussies flew them as well as Coastal Command and I'm sure that the size won't be a problem.

 

TRF