Trumpeter 1/32 P-47D Razorback "Eileen"

[monthebiff]

That cockpit is a work of art John, very nice indeed!

 

Regards. Andy 

[dennismcc]

That cockpit is superb, I must try harder on my next one  !!

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

[Woody V]

4 hours ago, Thunnus said:

this is not intended to be a definitive, super-accurate model.  I want it to be authentic as much as possible but I think the line I draw between reason and insanity may fall short of expectations and for that, I apologize in advance.

Well said.

[zaxos345]

Well John you may not want to be a definitive, super-accurate model....but it definitely is!!!!

What a build!!!!!! And the ''jug'' is my favourite bird the razorback of course!!!

I will follow this build as a junkie!!! hahaha

 

John

[chuck540z3]

Awesome work on the cockpit John!  Everything looks so real and natural.

 

Cheers,

Chuck

[JayW]

7 hours ago, Thunnus said:

With all the detailed talk about the prop and engine, I was afraid that my work on the cockpit would be overlooked.

 

Hah!  Not by me.  I remember distinctly when I did the cockpit for the 1/18 effort, so I know alot about P-47 cockpits.  Yours is a representative as I've ever seen!

 

9 hours ago, Thunnus said:

I want it to be authentic as much as possible but I think the line I draw between reason and insanity may fall short of expectations and for that, I apologize in advance.

 

No you won't disappoint me.  I'm familiar with your Boyington F4U build, and your Brown 4 FW-190 build, and if this P-47 build lives up to those two, how on earth could anyone be disappointed?  All I want to do is to help guide the way if I can when there is some confusion, or if some dumb Trumpeter mistake threatens to make a mockery of what you are doing. 

 

That said, I will admit now that I am addicted to Aircorps Library.  It's good, and it's bad.  The modeler is provided with information that literally removes any question about how some detail is supposed to look, if one does the research.  So whereas one might just take for granted that a kit detail is accurate, he/she can find out that it isn't!  So a decision has to be made what if anything to do about it.   Increasingly, I am giving in, and trying to fix more and more and more if I have determined it isn't right.  Sometimes to a fault.  I guess that is the Aircorps disease.  I don't know if you will catch it or not!      

Edited December 21, 2022 by JayW

[JayW]

11 hours ago, Juggernut said:

There’s also a slip ring assembly behind the electric prop assembly that’s probably not modeled in the Trumpeter kit.

 

Are you talking about that "brush housing"?  If so, I've seen some pictures of one on a F4F engine (R-1830) I think, but no good pics of one on a R-2800.   Just artists conceptions in the E&M manual.

[Juggernut]

4 hours ago, JayW said:

 

Are you talking about that "brush housing"?  If so, I've seen some pictures of one on a F4F engine (R-1830) I think, but no good pics of one on a R-2800.   Just artists conceptions in the E&M manual.

 

 

 

 

Part 7 is the brush assembly; part 6 is bolted to the nose of the engine prop reduction gearcase and the sliprings (part 5) are on the prop itself.

 

 

And this (which the above prop photo was taken from): The Curtiss Electric Propeller

Edited December 21, 2022 by Juggernut

[Thunnus]

Thank you Tim and Jay, for this information regarding the prop governor and brush assembly.  Trying to digest. As I understand it, the slip rings are part of the prop shaft behind the blades.  You wouldn't see the slip rings normally because they would be inside the brush assembly.  The rotational energy of the prop is captured via the slip ring/brush assembly connection and is used to drive the electric motor that controls the prop angle.  The prop governor maintains constant engine speed by adjusting the prop angle.  The Curtiss prop governor is different than the Hamilton governor and the resin piece that I have looks like it is the Hamilton one.  The link that Tim posted gives us a picture of what one type of Curtiss prop governor looks like...

 

 

The schematic that Jay posted shows us a slightly different version of the governor but is the appropriate one for an R2800.

 

My plan is to modify the little resin part to look like a hybrid of above.  Primarily replacing the wheel with a lever.  I'm not sure I am going to attempt to replicate the brush housing.  It's not a feature that screams, hey look at me, and can easily be missed, IMO.  I'll gladly concede that level of detail to JayW!

 

[Juggernut]

That's pretty much it John...you've got it.  IF you look at the photo below, you can see the Curtiss Electric parts between the prop hub and the engine.  Don't notice the gigantic hole in the prop blade...it'll give you shivers...the pilot probably has false teeth in that photo from the insane vibration that must've caused.

 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by Juggernut

[JayW]

9 minutes ago, Thunnus said:

It's not a feature that screams, hey look at me, and can easily be missed, IMO.  I'll gladly concede that level of detail to JayW!

 

I dunno John.  It's fairly prominent, and not a very difficult detail (as opposed to the prop governor, which will be tough).  Here is mine in 1/18 (the brush housing is fairly accurately to scale):

 

 

I will concede the brush assembly itself and it's electrical cable (and the electrical box that cable goes to) could be beyond the pale at this point, and some of that is not easily seen.  But the the brush housing is easily seen right behind the hub.  It's an easy part to make; the only difficulty is that the array of studs/nuts on the front of the engine would have to be ground down to provide a flat surface for the housing to attach to.  Then as an option, the nuts can be restored on the flange of the housing.   

 

My concern with leaving this part out is that without it, the prop and hub might not have the correct protrusion from the nose cowling.  In an earlier post, I identified what that protrusion ought to be.  Believe me, I can guarantee Trumpeter didn't properly think that through.  Unless the hub is somehow built up behind the prop blades, that protrusion is not going to be right.   Something has to fill that gap.

[Thunnus]

After digesting the information regarding the prop governor and brush assembly, including the great photos posted by Tim and Jay, I was able to move forward with some rudimentary additions.  First was scratching up the brush assembly to the prop shaft.  In terms of creating circular items, I am limited by the tools at my disposal.  The inner disc was produced by the largest punch size that I have so the larger outer disc had to be sourced elsewhere.  I used a small washer from a fishing reel. The brush housing was shaped from a piece of sheet styrene.

 

 

Here is what it looks like behind the prop.

 

 

Also scratched up an electrical junction box.  The electrical cables from the prop governor and brush assembly will connect to this.

 

 

I'm still working on the prop governor.  I found photos of the Curtiss-specific unit but it has a shape that would be difficult to build from scratch so I'll probably just modify the resin one that I have.

 

On the subject of small details, I've added a an emergency shut-off to the oxygen regulator.  It's nestled just between the black regulator and the brown oxygen hose.

 

[JayW]

Oh WTG on the Curtiss equipment!  Hey as long as you have paid attention to that prop hub protrusion (which would dictate the total thickness of the brush and/or housing), I think you've got it.  Here is the picture that concerns me:

 

 

 

Assuming the hub protrusion is about right, I see a whole bunch of exposed prop shaft between the back of the hub and the front of the engine.  When it's all said and done, we should not see that shaft at all.

 

BTW this picture that Juggernaut provided shows a good detail that modelers often miss.  Look at the thin plate between the hub body and the nose cone.  If your nose cone is not yet permanently attached, this would be an easy addition. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2022 by JayW

[JayW]

The intercooler door - yours looks very very nice.  

 

 

If you want to study some outrageous stuff, see intercooler exit door drawing 89F68183.  Here is part of it:

 

 

 

The point I would make is that the two flanges of that door have funny shaped slots in them - cam tracks of sorts - that engage fixed rollers on the fuselage-to-duct interface.  None of this can be seen, so need not be modelled.  But what this door does when it opens is translate forward as well as rotate to open.  When it comes time to paint the fuselage and the national insignia, painting that door will be interesting.  On the real airplane that painting is done with the door in the closed position.  And part of the insignia is painted on the door exterior.  Such that when the door is open, as it so often is, there is a considerable mismatch with the rest of the insignia.  Look at any Thunderbolt pic where the door shows, and you will see what I mean.  So to paint the door properly, one must know some about where it is when it's closed. 

 

Just a heads up.  

[Thunnus]

Thanks Jay!  The brush housing fills the gap on the prop shaft between the prop hub and the front of the gear reduction housing, more or less. Plate between prop hub and cone noted.

 

As far as the intercooler doors are concerned, I was going to add a little bit of detail at the base of the doors to hint at the sliding flanges.  And yes, I understand that the open doors moved forward, hiding the forward portion of the doors and that the painting of the stars and bars will reflect that movement.