LSP Engines

[KiwiZac]

I think I may have asked this before: does anyone have any suggestions for an Allison V-1710 and mounts etc for the Hasegawa/Eduard 1/32 Curtiss P-40N? I'd love to have one of the cowls off.

[Dpgsbody55]

22 hours ago, Greif8 said:

 

Hi Michael, I agree that the development of engines and other technology during WW2 is a fascinating topic.  I was what the U.S. Army calls a Master Gunner, which is a school trained weapons systems expert on either the M1 Series Abrams tanks, the M2/M3 series Bradley Fighting Vehicles, (my specialty area) or small arms.  I enjoyed the challenge of both "building a better mouse trap" when it came to gunnery planning, and working to master the technical aspects of the weapons system.   So I have always liked learning about the technological aspects of warfare, as well as the tactics, techniques and procedures.  It is interesting that Germany was never able to develop multi-stage superchargers during the war, and your point about their lack of high octane fuel is a fact that is often overlooked concerning engine performance at altitude.  If I remember correctly, one of the primary reasons the P-38 was not as successful in the ETO was due to it using British high octane fuel which was said to be inferior to the U.S. 100 octane gas.  Interesting topic to be sure!

 

Sincerely,

Ernest   

 

I think that one of the aspects that may have prevented the use of multi stage superchargers is how they were mounted on the engine.  Being side mounted, adding another stage and intercooler would have created a very wide engine and that alone would negate some of the gains from such an engine.  Another factor was Germany's lack of suitable metals to deal with the stress of such applications.  This was particularly well demonstrated by the way their early jets would disintegrate (compressor blades being thrown off, for example) if high revs were maintained.  By today's standards, these axial flow engines had a very low rev limit of 8,700rpm.  Compare that to later axial flow engines!!  It also shows up as a factor in the extremely short engine life when MW50 and NOS boost was applied in their DB-605's.  We're talking minutes here.

 

Britain sourced it's fuel from a number of sources, including the US for the war in Europe, and Abadan, Iran for the war in the desert and far east.  So the issues with the P-38 being caused by fuel that was mostly sourced from the US doesn't seem quite right to me.  I'm not a P-38 expert, but I do know that other US planes had problems operating from English bases.  The one that springs to mind here is the P-47B,C and early D, which encountered all sorts of engine misfires that were eventually traced back to the shielding of the ignition wires on it's R-2800, caused by the much greater humidity that existed in the cooler climate over England and western Europe.  These problems hadn't been encountered in service in the US, but generally, the climate there is much less humid and warmer.  I do know that P-38's had issues with their turbo charger regulators freezing, which caused thrown rods, burnt valves and fowled spark plugs, but again, this could be explained by climate factors.  I'm of the opinion that the V-1710 was a basically excellent engine that never received proper development.  It's supercharger was very poor and the boost applied meant that it maxed out at only about 42 inches of manifold pressure.

 

3 hours ago, KiwiZac said:

I think I may have asked this before: does anyone have any suggestions for an Allison V-1710 and mounts etc for the Hasegawa/Eduard 1/32 Curtiss P-40N? I'd love to have one of the cowls off.

 

Yeah, I'd love a P-40N with a detailed engine.  The only way I can see to achieve this at present is to wreck an old Revell P-40E and kitbash that engine into your model.  I built one of these old kits 20 years ago, but it still holds up well so I don't want to wreck it.

 

 

Aside from the GWH P-40B, I don't know of a really good P-40 readily available on the market today.  There's a hint to Airfix for a future 1/24 kit, or Z-M, Tamiya, or even a later P-40 from GWH considering the excellent job they've don with the early P-40.  Incidentally, the engine from the GWH kit won't work in a later P-40 as the reduction gear at the front of the engine is totally different to that fitted to P-40E onwards.

 

 

Cheers,

Michael

Edited March 16, 2022 by Dpgsbody55

[KiwiZac]

On 3/16/2022 at 5:53 PM, Dpgsbody55 said:

Yeah, I'd love a P-40N with a detailed engine.  The only way I can see to achieve this at present is to wreck an old Revell P-40E and kitbash that engine into your model.

Aha! Good thinking, thanks for pointing that out. I'll see if I can track one down (I'm in New Zealand so sourcing one from the US isn't too likely right now due to postal issues).

[Dpgsbody55]

6 hours ago, KiwiZac said:

Aha! Good thinking, thanks for pointing that out. I'll see if I can track one down (I'm in New Zealand so sourcing one from the US isn't too likely right now due to postal issues).

 

I haven't seen a Revell 1/32 Kittyhawk in more than a decade.  Good luck with your hunt and if you do find one, please keep us up to date withit's progress when you get to it.

 

 

Cheers,

Michael

[thierry laurent]

Aren't other 1/32 Allison engines suitable? Many P-38, P-39 and P-40 kits have them.

[ultmo]

I just want to say all of you are amazing at this craft—each of you creating models within the model.

 

I feel fortunate to actually see what I’m learning to do. Thanks!

[Dpgsbody55]

On 3/19/2022 at 5:20 PM, thierry laurent said:

Aren't other 1/32 Allison engines suitable? Many P-38, P-39 and P-40 kits have them.

 

I'm not aware of many kits with Allison engines as part of the kit, and certainly none currently available with a suitable engine in a P-40E or later.  On the issue of P-40 kits, if I'm wrong, please enlighten me.  I'd love to know.  I would imagine that Trumpeter's P-38 would have a detailed engine, maybe two, but I'm not at all familiar with it.  Again, I don't know of any other currently available 1/32 Lightnings.  However, if fitted to a P-40, the inlet manifold and exhausts are completely different.

 

As to the P-39, the Allison V-1710 fitted was very different.  It had no reduction gear fitted to the front as this was fitted in the nose of that plane, driven from a shaft off the front of the engine.  The picture below shows a P-39 engine on the left, with an engine from a P-38 or P-40 (it's hard to distinguish from this angle), followed by P-40B or C engine, which has an epicyclic reduction gear set, hence the lower thrust line in comparison to later P-40's.

 

 

 

Hope this helps.

Michael

[thierry laurent]

Hi Michael.

 

The following series of 1/32 kits have Allison engines:

 

Revell P-38 

Trumpeter P-38

Kittyhawk P-39 

Revell P-40 

Trumpeter P-40 

 

Obviously the versions are variable, accuracy often questionable and details missing but this is always better than starting from scratch !

 

HTh 

 

Thierry

 

 

 

 

[quang]

… and don’t forget the current Belle of the Ball: the GWH H-81 

[KiwiZac]

On 3/22/2022 at 6:32 AM, quang said:

… and don’t forget the current Belle of the Ball: the GWH H-81 

Unfortunately no good to me thanks to being too early a variant of engine as explained prior, but I expect it would be a fantastic build on its own!

[Dpgsbody55]

On 3/22/2022 at 12:23 AM, thierry laurent said:

Hi Michael.

 

The following series of 1/32 kits have Allison engines:

 

Revell P-38 

Trumpeter P-38

Kittyhawk P-39 

Revell P-40 

Trumpeter P-40 

 

Obviously the versions are variable, accuracy often questionable and details missing but this is always better than starting from scratch !

 

HTh 

 

Thierry

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Thierry.  Of this bunch, the Revell P-40E is the one best suited to transplant into a Hasegawa kit.  Of Trumpeter's P-40's the only one with an engine is the P-40B, which is unique to early P-40's.  K-H's P-39 is now out of production, so I'm glad I have a second kit in my stash; the first one having been built for the Russian Front GB.  It's a good kit IMHO.  I remember a friend building the Revell P-38 way back in 1970 or '71.  I haven't seen either of the Revell kits in a very long time, but then I do live in the most isolated capital city in the world.  We used to have a good selection of shops here carrying a good range of kits, but most have closed now or downsized. 

 

I suspect that if I ever want to build an LSP Lightning, it's going to have to be the Trumpeter offering, as it's more readily available.  Hope there's a tweak list somewhere!!

 

Another thought for a P-40 project occurred as I write this.  How about transplanting a Merlin into Trumpy's P-40F??  I suspect the biggest problem would be fixing the mis-shaped cowling.  It would have to be a single stage supercharged Merlin too, so I'll have to have a dig though my parts boxes to see if I have one.

 

 

Cheers,

Michael

[chuck540z3]

My 1/24 R2800, finally installed in my Hellcat.

 

 

 

 

Cheers,

Chuck

[JayW]

Engines?  Here is my 1/18 P&W R2800-8 for a F4U Corsair (currently under construction).  This engine is scratch built in its entirety.

 

 

 

 

[chrish]

wow!

[Gerhard]

30 minutes ago, JayW said:

Engines?  Here is my 1/18 P&W R2800-8 for a F4U Corsair (currently under construction).  This engine is scratch built in its entirety.

 

 

 

 

Scratch built!!!!  My word, you have skills. That is beyond excellent work.