Why Keep Threads On Topic?

[LSP_K2]

To address the OP here, there can be numerous reasons for a thread lock-down. That thread was doomed from day one to go nowhere, as there was really nowhere for it to go. While it never really got too snotty, it was also quickly devolving from the original intent, into a meandering discussion of what other companies may do, so not on point at all.

 

Keeping a post "on topic", within reason, helps those that are interested, remain interested, and is why we prefer for it to stay that way whenever possible. Locking threads is not a decision that any staffer takes lightly.

[Pup7309]

7 hours ago, Panzerwomble said:

I think closing down yet another WNW thread ( 7 alone started by the OP of the recently closed one) is not excessive. How much really is left to be said on the subject ? 

 

TBH if people want to have wish lists , and endless debates over minutia , and grind their pet axes then why not have a separate part of the forum , or ask that all the debate is kept on one or two threads as on other forums , easier to ignore it all , less clutter, & saves repeating yourself on a whole new thread ...

 

Anyone familiar with the British Army forum will know what I mean , nb they have a less polite view /description .  

 

If you want to mark it "Wish list ....Tamiya Wish list ....or just "WNW /Kotare/ 1/35 again" in the title that would be handy too. I'll skip it . 

 

Over the years I've been on here, I can say, for my opinion, this forum consistently showcases some of the finest scale work to be seen anywhere , by genuinely gifted folk -way beyond where I will ever get in the hobby , heck there are plenty of people who manufacture kits for a living on here too .

 

LSP reviews and guides are outstanding , and the mod tolerance here is good , no redlining and "experten" flying around . 

 

Personally I've drifted off a bit in the past 12 months because of the growing numbers who never seem to build anything but have to crack on endlessly about the industry , why this is wrong, what such and such should do etc etc. That most famous proponent (now departed) had 10,000+ posts, not one of which ever mentioned anything he built . I don't miss his presence. The endless rehashings ....be nice for them not to become what LSP is known for.

 

Oh and I'll have one of these from Kotare for Xmas please , a Blackburn Puffin Pellet . 

 

 

 

 

 

 

WNW was listed in the title of the thread shut down. 
I guess OP could also put disclaimer: if you hate this subject don’t read on. It will be closed shortly in any case.

How hard is it? 
Recently there was a Kotare thread with no wishlisting allowed which worked so I guess it’s possible. Don’t get me wrong whenever I see people wanting the latest Fairey Fruitbat it irks, so understand any thread hijack or cognitive bias bans. 

Edited March 15 by Pup7309

[John1]

6 hours ago, Pup7309 said:

WNW was listed in the title of the thread shut down. 
I guess OP could also put disclaimer: if you hate this subject don’t read on. It will be closed shortly in any case.

How hard is it? 
Recently there was a Kotare thread with no wishlisting allowed which worked so I guess it’s possible. Don’t get me wrong whenever I see people wanting the latest Fairey Fruitbat it irks, so understand any thread hijack or cognitive bias bans. 

I just don't get it.  No one forces members to read or follow a post.   Why is it felt that it's such a horrible thing to have some thread drift.  Look at the count of views for those posts, obviously a (very) large number of people were following this thread and participating and yet the mods decided that this was unacceptable and locked it?   I think at minimum, the decision should have included feedback from the OP.   If the OP felt his thread was being hijacked, that's one thing.  If the mods just unilaterally decided that were going to lock it, that's something else.    Leave the nuclear option off the table and save it for threads that devolve into politics, personal shots, etc.   My $0.02. 

[MikeC]

28 minutes ago, John1 said:

  Leave the nuclear option off the table and save it for threads that devolve into politics, personal shots, etc.

Perhaps the Mods considered there was a risk of that and wanted to avoid it happening.  In any case, 'tis done, and I for one have no problem with that.

[Out2gtcha]

2 hours ago, John1 said:

I just don't get it.  No one forces members to read or follow a post.   Why is it felt that it's such a horrible thing to have some thread drift.  Look at the count of views for those posts, obviously a (very) large number of people were following this thread and participating and yet the mods decided that this was unacceptable and locked it?   I think at minimum, the decision should have included feedback from the OP.   If the OP felt his thread was being hijacked, that's one thing.  If the mods just unilaterally decided that were going to lock it, that's something else.    Leave the nuclear option off the table and save it for threads that devolve into politics, personal shots, etc.   My $0.02. 

 

I can tell you right now it wasn't just because of some thread drift, that happens a lot here.

There were a LOT of personal shots/sniping back and forth in that thread as well.

That decision was made (rightfully so), not lightly, and we all agreed it was the right one.

That's all I'm going to say about that.

[cbk57]

I would submit the shut down of the WNW thread was pre-mature regardless, the discourse I was seeing was within bounds, I personally was being critical of Peter Jackson, but I don:t think that unreasonable in light of the facts of the situation.  I did not call him names as he deserves, only respectfully suggest that the knight hood should be revoked based upon his treatment of his employees.   He made some great movies that I still watch and love, but I will never again have good thoughts of Peter Jackson until I see evidence of some contrician towards people he has harmed, sorry but he is in many regards a lesser version of Lance Armstrong.  Yes I am comparing him to another world class jerk who i was a big fan of and who treated people close to him badly.  I fault Lance more for how he treated people than his doping.

 

This forum does a good job of keeping things civil, and civility should be the benchmark above all.  I know we get thread drift usually I try to orient my post to the target of the thread but am guilty of going of course at times, I know I admit.  

 

 

Edited March 15 by cbk57

[Mark_C]

1 hour ago, cbk57 said:

I did not call him names as he deserves, only respectfully suggest that the knight hood should be revoked based upon his treatment of his employees.

 

I think that would call for mod action.  You may have strong feelings about the issue, and you may be correct, but nothing has been established conclusively about employees and so on.  Until that happens, then I would say these comments are an attack on his character and motives, not a statement of fact, and the site would be wise to expunge the comments.

 

 

[cbk57]

55 minutes ago, Mark_C said:

 

I think that would call for mod action.  You may have strong feelings about the issue, and you may be correct, but nothing has been established conclusively about employees and so on.  Until that happens, then I would say these comments are an attack on his character and motives, not a statement of fact, and the site would be wise to expunge the comments.

 

 

I always thought I could not and would not attack the character and motives of members of this site, I really don:t think the character and motives of a major player in 1/32 scale modleing who is not a member of this forum should be bared but maybe that is me.  We discuss motives of Mr. Tamiya constantly but that has never been barred.  So really we are only barred from making negative comments then?  

 

I think it an essential aspect of this forum not to attack the character and motives of my fellow members, that to me is where the line should be but as long as we are respectful of each other, then the character and motives of modeling companies and brands should be in bounds so long as the discourse is civil.  After all, if we had someone on the traders board committing fraud, that would call for some degree of discussion.  We have been very lucky in that regard as this forum is small enough that we don:t see a lot of fraud, however I tried another forum and found that any post in the trade section is subject to response from scammers.

 

I further submit that i am well within the bounds of constructive criticism of Peter Jackson as he is the one that caused his staff to be fired without notice or without just cause, it is a matter of public record in numerous interviews form the time period with former staff.  Further it is also of public record that he did not pay for things he ordered, I.E. the !.35 Lancaster and the 1/32 DR.I as well as the 1/24 Dr.I as he lost the rights to those by virtue of non payment of his bills.

Edited March 15 by cbk57

[Mark_C]

I think the issue of note here is that what you consider constructive criticism someone like Peter Jackson may consider an unwarranted attack on his character, business practices, etc., and may not only move against you personally, but also the site hosting your comments.

 

It may sound silly, but I have personal experience with this.  Many years ago, the Guardian newspaper had a member of its "Guardian Talk" forums who, for whatever reason, just wasn't getting along with others.  He wasn't famous, he wasn't a big deal, but he wound up being roundly disliked by some people on the various sub-forums.

 

At least one person decided to imply this person was engaged in predatory practices against children.  The Guardian did nothing about these comments, and eventually this person sued the Guardian site.  And won.  One result was the immediate closure of all the forums.  I do not know if money also changed hands, but I do know that when the Guardian reestablished forums much later on, they were and continue to be very closely moderated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 15 by Mark_C

[cbk57]

4 minutes ago, Mark_C said:

I think the issue of note here is that what you consider constructive criticism someone like Peter Jackson may consider an unwarranted attack on his character, business practices, etc., and may not only move against you personally, but also the site hosting your comments.

 

It may sound silly, but I have personal experience with this.  Many years ago, the Guardian newspaper had a member of its "Guardian Talk" forums who, for whatever reason, just wasn't getting along with others.  He wasn't famous, he wasn't a big deal, but he wound up being roundly disliked by some people on the various sub-forums.

 

At least one person decided to imply this person was engaged in predatory practices against children.  The Guardian did nothing about these comments, and eventually this person sued the Guardian site.  And won.  One result was the immediate closure of all the forums.  I do not know if money also changed hands, but I do know that when the Guardian reestablished forums much later on, they were and continue to be very closely moderated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is not silly there are meaningful boundaries that must be enforce.   If I were to imply Peter Jackson was a pedofile or anything akin that would be a much more serious ball of wax, as there is no basis for that any where in any form.  Bad business practices though, well that is much more out in the air both within scale modleing and outside as to the same individual, HoweverI, I limited my comments to scale modeling as that is pertinent to our forums and pertinent to why we were discussing what could have been as to WNW.  I still hope for a positive out come some day both as to the individual P.J. And as to WNW and that in due course maybe the individual will come to see that he needs to make some amends.  

 

I really am disappointed in the person, and that is the best way to put it.  I am not angry about him, that is too much emotion, but I very much find his behaviour disrespectful to others.

 

  

[Panzerwomble]

To the guys getting a bit hot under the collar with my opinion -I invite you to please post some RFI's of your WNW builds as you both were clearly well into them .

I never built one when I could afford one , and would be genuinely interested to see your builds , what worked , what would was hard , why they were so good .

 

I'm sad WNW died before I got into biplanes, and also sad that for whatever reason the moulds haven't  been licensed or sold on, and languish in a warehouse somewhere gathering dust, and the remaining stocks are now just being hoarded for profit . 

 

Learning from others for me adds value to my hobby , far more than just speculation , or wishing that things were different than they were . 

 

Cheers 

PW 

Edited March 15 by Panzerwomble

[Dave Williams]

It’s sad that once again a thread has drifted off topic, and once again it’s drifted to WNW talk. 

[Panzerwomble]

7 minutes ago, Dave Williams said:

It’s sad that once again a thread has drifted off topic, and once again it’s drifted to WNW talk. 

No just responding to specific point made while the UK was at sleep / at work . 

 

I'd leave it up to the mods to police threads. 

[John1]

16 minutes ago, Dave Williams said:

It’s sad that once again a thread has drifted off topic, and once again it’s drifted to WNW talk. 

I trust it will be locked down shortly, nothing to fear.    
 

Perhaps we need to have a discussion on a new forum, dedicated to all things WNW-related?   

[LSP_Ron]

I think your getting ahead of yourselves.  I can assure you there has been zero discussion with the mods about locking this thread.  Brian sums up why the other one was locked pretty well. 

 

A thread about what could have been from a company that went out of business sometime ago is getting old, but what ever. When it turns into personal punches around "if you don't like it don't look" is where we shut it down as after over ten years being a mod here it's inevitably doing to spiral south.  It's completely pointless and a bad vibe.

 

Yes it was me who recommended we do so but I have been very busy at work and could not address any fallout when doing so, which happens just about every time us mods lock something. Those complaints need to be addressed but it takes time to do so and part of the job of being a mod. We all agreed, so Ray took the liberty of doing so. 

 

 

 

Ron