Tamiya F-15C Kicked Up A Notch- Dec 1/17: DONE!

[ClumsyDude]

Thanks Peter.

 

The key to gluing fine mesh PE parts with CA glue is the viscosity of the glue and how much you use.  Using the extreme example of what not to do, using lots of very thin glue will fill every bit of detail and leave you with a mess- and it will dry too quickly as well.  You want a glue that's relatively medium- thick, and just enough to cover the surface you are attaching it to.  Thicker glues, as you know, also give you more time to move the part around to get the correct alignment.  Apply the glue to the surface where the part is going, not the PE part itself, and apply it relatively sparingly in terms of thickness, but not area.  ie;  Cover the entire area where the part is going, but keep it thin.

 

For PE and other parts requiring CA glue, I almost always "mix a batch" before I use it, just like I do paint.  By mixing very thin and medium viscosity glues, you can create a glue mixture that is just right for the application at hand.  Sometimes you want the glue thin so that it leaks around parts without much of a tell-tale glue signature (which may need no mixing), while other times a nice glob of glue is the ticket to hold a part for several seconds before it dries, giving you time to play around a bit.

 

The other key thing to have on hand is CA glue accelerator, when you need a bond in a hurry and a very good CA glue Debonder.  Here's a pic I've used a few times before- probably too many times- showing two key things I use.  I  mix the glues in this deep plastic cup because it holds the glue and it will not dry for several hours- even days- left uncovered!  I'm not sure why, other than the fact that CA glue dries by absorbing water molecules from the air, rather than degassing solvents like other glues, which is why it doesn't shrink.  Maybe the glue forms a protective barrier within the cup, repelling the moist air above?  I don't know, other than it works and it saves me from wasting a lot of glue.

 

The other key gluing aid I use is Great Planes Pro CA Debonder, which has gotten me out of a lot of tight spots when I want CA glue removed.  I bet I've tried 5 different kinds of debonders, including the one made specifically for this Mercury product, and nothing comes close to dissolving the glue and removing it if that's what I want.  Many times I just use it to just redistribute the glue, because when it evaporates, the glue bond is restored.  Using the mesh PE example above, if I used too much glue and some of it oozed through the mesh, I'd just get a Q-tip soaked in this debonder and work on the mesh until the detail was restored, or almost restored, depending on the situation.  The effectiveness of this debonder does not have a time limit on it either, because I can remove CA glue many months after application.  I know this, because too often I have removed CA glue from a part, only to discover that I also removed some glue nearby where I had meticulously used CA glue to fill a crack. 

 

 

 

 

I hope that helps.

 

Cheers,

Chuck

Thanks for that Chuck ... I'm going to have a crack on my Academy hornet, to see if I can't add in the mesh for the splitter plates on the intake ... very timely!

 

Jim

[chuck540z3]

Thanks Chuck ... surely a new direction and seeing how well it works for you, I'll be testing over the weekend. I never thought of making a blend of CA glues nor using the debonder to clean out the offending CA glue. I'll track down a bottle or two of the Great Planes Debonder as well.

Much appreciated

Peter

 

 

A couple more tips if you don't know already. 

 

-  I only buy thin CA glue, because over time it gets thick on its own, so I usually have 3 different viscosities on hand- and they all say "Thin".

 

-  Debonder has made me fearless using CA glue, because I know that there's a 95% chance I can fix a mess if I create one.  It does, however, eat paint, so don't use it on any painted surfaces.

 

-  After using a microbrush to apply CA glue, I often clean the brush by just using a little debonder, much like using thinner to remove paint.  It comes out almost perfect again, with no glue residue if you use enough of it.

 

Chuck

[chuck540z3]

Thanks for that Chuck ... I'm going to have a crack on my Academy hornet, to see if I can't add in the mesh for the splitter plates on the intake ... very timely!

 

Jim

 

Hi Jim,

 

As a matter of fact, I know that it will work for that very application!  Here's my Hornet from a few years ago....

 

Trimming the recess

 

 

After glue, with some light sanding to remove any sharp edges

 

 

After paint

 

 

 

Cheers,

Chuck

[ClumsyDude]

I have that build saved in the archive

 

Jim

[MarioS]

Chuck you're a wealth of information and you've got a knack on how to explain things in great detail   Thank You

 

P.S.  If you don't mind could you be able to post a direct link to that F-18 Hornet build.

[chuck540z3]

Chuck you're a wealth of information and you've got a knack on how to explain things in great detail   Thank You

 

P.S.  If you don't mind could you be able to post a direct link to that F-18 Hornet build.

 

 

Sure Mario, it's here.  As I mentioned about a link to my F-4E build the other day, the text is corrupted due to a server crash over at ARC, but you should be able to figure out the missing parts.

 

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/196766-132-academy-f-18d-to-cf-18b-kicked-up-a-notch/

 

Cheers,

Chuck

[Rainer Hoffmann]

Chuck, I always have a big smile on my face when I read your updates! Your work is exeptional and I learn something new every time you post! Thanks a lot for sharing your knowledge with us mere mortals.

 

Cheers

Rainer

[Marcel111]

Pristine work on those intakes (but that's to be expected).

 

Cheers,

 

Marcel

[Joel_W]

Chuck,

  What a great CA glue tutorial. You answered a few of my never asked questions concerning mixing of viscosity types. I'm going to try your brands of Debonder & Accelerator as the Sprue Brothers brand at least for me seems to need a lot of it to work, and takes a relatively long time to actually do their intended job.  I do use micro brushes for both applying and debonding now. I've become addicted to using them.  And here I thought that I was the only one using Debonder to clean those micro brushes. Need to find those type of plastic cups, which a full service Pharmacy should have.

 

  As for the primer issue at times  I've struggled with clogging up very fine details especially in 1/48 scale, because I still prime everything being mostly a Tamiya Acrylic type of guy.  At least for me Acrylics don't really stick to PE or Metal all that well, so that there is no chance of not screwing up the paint if I need to mask over it, or accidently chip it.  Like Pete, I've gone to MRP paints for interiors whenever possible, and yes I do also use Model Master enamels as well for that purpose, but I still prefer Tamiya Acrylics for the exterior. Been using them for so long, it's really hard to leave my comfort zone.

 

Joel

Edited February 2, 2017 by Joel_W

[ghatherly]

Thanks Gary.  I'm not sure what the question is?  I edited the brightness and contrast of the interior of the engine nozzle to highlight the central fan hub so that we can see what it looked like, but beyond that I don't know what the question is?  I'll also check on that blue vs. black color behind the vents.  My fear is that it will just look like camo blue over-spray if I do.

 

Cheers,

Chuck

 

Hey Chuck,

 

Didn't really ask a question.  Just was chiming in on the intake color and those pictures look very bright, but that is on my screen and the brightness may show differently on others.  Your decision on the color choice makes sense with your choice of paint scheme.

 

 

Take Care,

 

Gary

[richdlc]

superb as always!

[Deadpool]

Chuck,

 

Awesome work mate! Looks brilliant. Can't wait to see more.

[chuck540z3]

Feb 12/17

 

Thank you everyone for your supportive comments!

 

With the intakes and flame tubes done, it's time to attach the top fuselage to the bottom.  Based upon several dry fits of this procedure, I wasn't looking forward to it because the fit is really crude.

 

Nonetheless, here goes.  Don't worry, I had almost no pressure on those clamps, but I did need to hold a few bits together while the glue dried.

 

 

 

 

I will now show each quadrant of the sides of the fuselage to show you what the fit looks like to begin with (Before), what it should look like (Real Deal) and the final product after a LOT of sanding and added detail (After).

 

Lets' start with the rear starboard side.

 

Before

 

 

 

I noticed on pics of my subject that the formation light on the starboard side is split, while the port side is one piece.  According to Jake's book, only the right side of F-15C's have this feature to accommodate an avionics access panel.  On F-15A's, the left side is split instead, on F-15 B/D's, neither side is split and on F-15E's, both sides are split.  Cool thing to know…….

 

Real Deal Right

 

 

 

 

Real Deal Left.  Note the lack of panel line and rivet detail aft of the light, which in this example looks pretty bad……

 

 

 

 

After.  I simply cut the light approximately 1/3 of the way, then sanded it down from the back to make it thinner, as well as the front to reduce the recess, both of which are way too thick.  It still looks a bit thick, but I can find plenty of examples that look about the same.

 

 

 

 

 

The other side, with all the panel line and rivet detail deleted aft of the light.

 

 

 

 

Before.  The front right gun area is a mess and why the kit was molded to leave a gap at the front is a mystery, because it would have added some stability to the join.

 

 

 

 

Real Deal 1.  One thing that I've always wondered about is the presence of several square and odd shaped patches on the exterior of the jet, especially along the sides of the intakes and main landing gear wells.  According to Jake's book, these are repair patches to reinforce stress cracks (or avoid them) and no two jets look identical.  NOW I know why many of my reference pics don't match!

 

 

 

 

Real Deal 2.  Same side from the rear.

 

 

 

 

After.  Using thin styrene sheet, I created a few patches to sort of match what I see on the above pics, but total accuracy was not my goal, since the pattern of these patches is always changing.  I also rounded the sides of the gun compartment a bit, since the kit parts are square instead and added some detail to the edge of the top gun door.  The seam of the join is filled with CA glue, which allowed the dark wash to wick behind it from the panel lines, so it still looks visible.  Also, the major panel line that is supposed to go all the way from top to bottom is offset at the join on both sides quite badly, so I had to delete part of it and create another in its place.  The right wing has been dry fitted to see what does and what does not show underneath.

 

 

Edited February 12, 2017 by chuck540z3

[chuck540z3]

Before.  The other side isn't much better and has the same miss-matched panel lines.

 

 

 

 

Real Deal   Note all the patches on this side as well.

 

 

 

 

That lower right patch is huge!

 

 

 

 

After.  My interpretation of the above, but I reduced the size of the lower patch because it is so big.  Note the kit parts have patches on both sides to begin with already.

 

 

 

 

Before.  The rear parts fit a bit better, but there is an ugly gap in the middle where the tail hook faring is supposed to go.

 

 

 

 

Real Deal.  It should look something like this instead.

 

 

 

 

After.  Thankfully the Eduard F-15E PE kit has a cover plate for this area, but the top circular panel is too small and the bottom slot is too narrow.  After widening the slot for the tail hook, I added a circular disc to the top.

 

 

 

 

That tail hook was modified as well, also using the Eduard PE parts.  First I hollowed out both the top and bottom of the hook, then attached the PE part with CA glue.

 

 

 

The rear of the hook should have a hole in it as well.

 

 

 

 

Using more CA glue, I smoothed out the sharp edges and sanded both the plastic and brass smooth so that it will look like one piece when painted.

 

 

Edited February 12, 2017 by chuck540z3

[chuck540z3]

Real Deal.  The tail booms have lots of repair patches as well, but these are very crude and thick with huge rivets.

 

 

 

 

The right boom on my jet with the rear antenna has some small rivet patches to the top and a big one underneath.  Note the chaotic pattern of the bottom rivets.

 

 

 

 

Same as the left side.

 

 

 

A closer look at the left bottom

 

 

 

After.  I created a hybrid patch of several pics I used as references, using more Archer raised resin rivets.  My rivet patterns are nice and straight instead, just because I like them better that way.

 

 

 

 

The bottom of the same side.  I added that little access panel as well.

 

 

 

 

For the top of the right boom, I tried to replicate the rivet pattern close to the real deal above.

 

 

 

 

Since I attached the right wing earlier to see how it would fit, I was surprised that it wasn't all that bad.  It will take some work to get things looking right, but the gap is not near as bad as I have read about many times.  This shot also shows how plain the detail is on the top of the wing, much like the fuselage before I added all the new panel lines and rivets.  It looks like I have a lot of work to do!

 

 

 

 

That's it for now boys.  Besides the new wing detail, I need to modify the vertical and horizontal stabilizers quite a bit as well.  The horizontal stabs do not fit very well at all, but I think I have a pretty neat solution for that.  Until next time!

 

 

Cheers,

Chuck

Edited February 12, 2017 by chuck540z3