Tamiya F-15C Kicked Up A Notch- Dec 1/17: DONE!

[chuck540z3]

I personally prime everything now....the only issue? Stripping any paint I don't like for a redo because the paint's so much more difficult to strip with a primer.

 

Thanks for the Info.

 

Reasons why?  We all do what we are comfortable with and there are no hard and fast rules, so I'm curious about the reasons that people do.

 

Thanks,

Chuck

[Shaka HI]

I see that the final color coats can be applied smoother/thinner with it than without. I think I use the color coats much more sparingly and while I was concerned with adding more paint to a model than necessary, I don't see nor feel this with a quality primer.

 

In summary, it's probably what you have said -- I am comfortable with it (based all on 3 completed models!).

[chuck540z3]

I see that the final color coats can be applied smoother/thinner with it than without. I think I use the color coats much more sparingly and while I was concerned with adding more paint to a model than necessary, I don't see nor feel this with a quality primer.

 

In summary, it's probably what you have said -- I am comfortable with it (based all on 3 completed models!).

 

 

Good enough for me!  If it works and you're happy with it, why change it?  There's a couple of very good modelers with popular blogs who insist on priming, so to each their own.

 

Cheers,

Chuck

[LSP_Ray]

That is really some amazing work, Chuck! Looks great!

[dodgem37]

For pipe replacements, I will be using 0.5mm styrene rod'

Why not Albion Alloys?

 

Very special work here going on here, Chuck.  Great attention to detail.  Equally great execution, and explanation.

 

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Mark

[A-10LOADER]

I personally like to prime because it's your "tell tale" coat. The primer tells you what you still need to address and fix plus, IMO it gives the paint something to stick to. Old habits from my body shop days I guess but, I've never had an issue with paint lifting, etc. I strictly use lacquer primers and paints because I feel they "bite" into the plastic more.

I'm glad I did prime my 1/18th scale Tomcat because, even after all this time there were still issues and things that needed attention.

Everyone is different and we all do what works for us.

Glad to hear your getting better Chuck and looking forward to more updates.

 

Steve

[Joel_W]

Chuck,

  thank you so much for your in-depth reply, as you presented a well thought out and documented reason for not priming. 

 

 On the whole I'm a Tamiya Acrylic guy as that's what I started with when I came back into the hobby. For the most part it will stick to any clean surface, but unlike lacquers and enamels, it won't "eat" through oils of any kind for a strong bite into plastic. So I use it as a bonding agent. 

 

My primer of choice these days is Mig Ammo Acrylic primer, which displaced Tamiya lacquer based primers as I feel that I can dilute it more so that the primer layer is very thin, and is slightly polished with a #4,000 Micro Mesh pad to kock off any high spots, and offer a little more surface area for bite.

 

I'm a believer in the Black basing technique which I've modified to my needs. The primer coats is how one applies the Black Basing. I also use what I refer to as a Gray Basing technique for a bleached effect.

 

I've experienced filling in of recessed panel lines and rivets with a primer coat because they're to soft, and need to be recessed further, but a few color coats would usually do the same thing. Something that I really shy away from as I seem to spend more time repairing my mistakes then actually fixing the manufactures soft recessed details. Your tutorial has helped, but I still really lack on the confidence area.

 

As a side note, it's comforting to know that I'm not the only one who just couldn't get Model Master Acrylics to stick to anything including their own acrylic primer. 

 

Joel

Edited January 19, 2017 by Joel_W

[shan]

 

 

 

 

Chuck, if you dont mind, i've got a quick question. - I noticed that you normally highlight all the panel lines and rivets before painting. but once the primier and coats of paint goes on , all those highlighting would leave no trace of being highlighted. do you preshade and do panel pin washing? although on the real aircraft, there might not be much grime building up in the panel lines and it could only be a modelling issue? But it sure does look good to have them highlighted while one is working on a model. or perhaps is it advisable to do these highlighting after the primer coat goes on, then light coats of paint can show some traces of the highlighting, thus no need for pin washing? What are your thoughts on pin washing?

[chuck540z3]

Chuck, if you dont mind, i've got a quick question. - I noticed that you normally highlight all the panel lines and rivets before painting. but once the primier and coats of paint goes on , all those highlighting would leave no trace of being highlighted. do you preshade and do panel pin washing? although on the real aircraft, there might not be much grime building up in the panel lines and it could only be a modelling issue? But it sure does look good to have them highlighted while one is working on a model. or perhaps is it advisable to do these highlighting after the primer coat goes on, then light coats of paint can show some traces of the highlighting, thus no need for pin washing? What are your thoughts on pin washing?

 

Hi shan,

 

Like I said to Joel earlier to answer his question, "it also depends".

 

I highlight the panel lines and rivets to show me what exactly the detail I have created (or enhanced) really looks like, which is one of the key reasons to use a primer.  Since I know that already with the dark wash and have made the necessary repairs, I have reduced one of the reasons for a primer coat.

 

Second, by not using a primer, some of the dark color may or may not show through, depending on a lot of things like how much paint I apply.  In my F-4E example above, part of the dark color of the rivets and panel lines is due to the Tamiya panel line color (black) and some of it is a subsequent wash of ProModeler wash, which I assume is what you mean by "pin washing"?.  This particular Phantom had heavily weathered paint like the real subject, so I wanted all this detail to show through.

 

Same can be said of my A-10C build, but this one is not weathered nearly as much.  This subject aircraft is mostly quite clean, but some of the fasteners and other details do show through very well, so I made sure the underlying dark wash showed through in some cases, while not in others.  Here's a pic of the nose area of the real deal.  Note the dark fasteners on the sides, but the nose cone and panel lines around it are almost invisible.

 

 

Now here is my model, where I avoided a dark look to the panel lines at the front, using extra paint and very little of a wash

 

 

 

 

Now on this F-15C Aggressor build, most of the panel lines do not show up at all, so I will be covering them with paint.  A lot of the panel lines are way too thick anyway, so knocking down the contrast between panel line and panel should make it look more realistic.

 

I hope that all makes sense.

 

Cheers,

Chuck

[kike_gt]

What I find awesome through your WIP's appart from the great building, is that it seems like you take pictures for every possible question in the future!!! that and your clear explanations make it really easy to understand, at least for a non native English speaker such as myself! and for that too, I thank you Chuck, your WIP's are real gems!

[shan]

Thanks Chuck

[chuck540z3]

Thanks Maru5137.  I try!

 

For once, some significant progress that you can actually see.  I still can't paint for a while, so I thought I would do some of the heavy lifting of this kit and get some big pieces out of the way.

 

First I replaced the intake ramp screening with Eduard PE.  The kit parts are formed outward, while they should be hollowed out and inward.

 

 

 

 

Next I added some detail to the outside of the ramps (bottom), while deleting a big glue seam at the top of the inside (top).

 

 

 

 

I've read many WIP threads of this kit and the biggest flaw appears to be the intakes.  I agree.  Besides coming in two big parts with a seam that is very hard to fill, the front of the intake has big gaps on either side.

 

 

 

 

The main gear wells aren't any better, but mercifully these gear doors are almost always closed when the jet is on the ground, so no real worries here I guess.

 

 

 

 

Knowing this ahead of time, I bought the GT Resin intake set.  This set can come in a variety of colors, so I ordered white for the rear intake and almost white for the front intakes, which should make painting a lot easier.

 

 

 

 

The fit is literally drop-in at the front.  The old Cutting Edge intakes are seamless, but they replicated the kit parts at the front, so the fit was not nearly as good.

 

 

 

 

 

All parts need quite a bit of trimming to get them to fit properly, but nothing too difficult.

 

 

 

 

With the top of the fuselage dry-fitted to the bottom and the front intakes attached, there's a big gap at the join at the top.  I've been using Guy Wilson's ( geedubelyer) WIP thread to solve a few of my build problems and sure enough, he has partially solved this problem as well with a little sanding.  For your reference, his thread is here:

 

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/260249-a-mojo-kickstarter/&page=2

 

 

 

 

After sanding, the intakes fit better, but there is still a problem I'll address later.

 

 

[chuck540z3]

There is a gap at the bottom of the intake hinges as well, same as there would be with the kit parts, which I'll need to fill and re-scribe later.

 

 

 

 

Now THIS gap is really big- and unnecessary.  I tried to find pics on the ‘net of the bottom of this kit and every single one avoided this specific area.  No wonder why, so I'll have to fill this as well.

 

 

 

 

Now the very tricky part.  With the front of the intakes aligned properly and dry-fitted to the rear intakes, you need to make the front intakes rock solid for future filling and painting.  Any flexing will crack filler and put the alignment of the intakes off.  First, mask everything the way you want it to stay.

 

 

 

 

Next, using some spare sprue rods, I oozed thick honey-like CA glue down the sides of the intakes.  You need to do this in layers and use CA glue accelerator, otherwise it won't dry.  Before I added the accelerator, I allowed some of the glue to drip underneath the intakes, creating a solid bond with the bottom of the fuselage.

 

 

 

 

Once this has dried overnight, I filled the gaps at the front of the intake with both putty and more CA glue, then sanded it smooth.

 

 

 

 

Now it was time to turn my attention to the rear exhausts.  Here's what you get with the kit parts for intake fan (left), exhaust fan with flame holder (right) and flame tubes (rear).

 

 

 

 

The GT Resin set comes with these same parts, but I thought the rear fan/flame holder assembly was too “tall†on the right.

 

 

 

 

Since you will be looking at it in the dark and from the direct rear, which will make it look mostly 2 dimensional, you can leave it as is, or cut the cone off the rear fan like this.

 

 

 

 

I think it looks better and more accurate this way when compared to references, as shown in the middle.

 

 

 

 

Like the front intakes, the rear GT Resin flame holders are seamless.  With all those ribs inside, there's no way you'll ever be able to modify the kit parts to look the same

 

 

 

 

Cutting off the central brace from the kit parts, I glued it to the flame holders with lots of thick CA glue the same as the front intakes.  It's not pretty and it's kind of messy, but it's rock solid and you'll never see it again after assembly.

 

 

Edited January 27, 2017 by chuck540z3

[chuck540z3]

Make sure you get the alignment correct before the application of accelerator….

 

 

 

 

Now that's a LOT of resin inside!

 

 

 

 

The top fuselage again dry fitted to the rear, with the kit nozzle dry fitted on the right to hold everything in place.

 

 

 

 

You don't have to worry too much about perfect alignment, because you see almost none of the front with the nozzle attached.

 

 

 

 

None of this resin has been cleaned up yet, so after painting, things should look pretty darn good- and seamless!

 

 

 

 

Now back to those front intakes with the central bulkhead now dry fitted.  The panel between the rear of the intake and that rectangular panel with fasteners is too wide AND those circular panels should not be visible when the intake is up in the parked position.  To fix this I'll likely do what Guy did, which is to fill some of it with a styrene spacer to make it look more natural.

 

 

 

 

Another tip I got from Guy's build is to widen the front intakes of the heat exchanger for cockpit and instrument air conditioning.  These openings should be taller and there should be a central “splitter†placed between top and bottom.

 

 

 

 

A peek at the front fan, which in this case is the kit one, because it fits better and the GT version isn't as much of an improvement over the kit parts as the rear fan/ flame holder.

 

 

 

 

Before you ask, I will be painting the front of the intakes separate from the rest of the intakes in light blue, then I'll dirty up the white of rear of the intake without painting it at all, thanks to the white resin and distance from the naked eye.  Hopefully it winds up looking something like this.  This pic provides a reminder to make sure you drill holes on the sides of the intake for those little probes on either side.

 

 

 

 

 

That's it for now boys!  I have a lot of work to do on these parts before I move on to my next challenge, the engine nozzles!

Edited January 27, 2017 by chuck540z3

[Shaka HI]

Wow, fantastic/substantial update. Thanks for sharing how you make your sausage!