Eli Raphael Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Wondering what will Gordon be doing with all those prepaid orders. Time will tell......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allok Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 What happened? I think we are seeing Martin getting shafted. The good news is, they seem to be leaving the Wingscale label alone which means that if Martin ever decides to find a more reliable injection moulder, he can get the label up and running. Perhaps he could get in contact with Wingnuts to see who they use. A good Chineese based Lawyer probably wouldn’t go amiss either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamme Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) We have a company in my area called Martin guitars. They have been hand making(yes hand making) guitars in Nazereth since 1855. They make a top end quality product and treat their very skilled employees well. They have a wait list for the product. There is a company in China making cheap knock offs of this guitar using the Martin name and logo and using the exact plans for these wonderful instruments(but with crappy materials,workmanship,etc)and they get away with it because the Chinese have a whole different set of laws concerning patents. The owner knows that there is not a darn thing that he can do about it. I bring this up because in Wingscales case as with the Martin guitars we can do something very sinple,don't buy the stuff! Everyone knows examples of this kind of stuff going on and yet we still buy the stuff! This is not a political rant this is me telling you guys that it has now been the turn of one of"us" to get screwed so......??? J Hi J. I know Martin Guitars very well (worked in a musical instruments shop once.....). Wonderfull guitars! Most of the Chinese company are not creators, they are good (sometimes very good) copyists. Concerning guitars, you got the same problem with Gibson and Epiphone guitars. I have an original US made Gibson SG. I saw (Chinese)copies of that really looks like Gibson or Epi's. Now in case of the Martin, Gibson,Epi's and many others the problem is not the same as with Martin winscale. The guitars are copy's of a brand name. Martin wingscale is the conceptor, and as the original (under wingscale name) did not appear on the market, Martin even cant threat the chinese company that will bring the B-25 on the market as a copy. Now I'm really sorry for Martin, And I will follow the movement of people here on LSP. I will only buy the kit if Martin will receive a sort of compensation. Otherway, like they say in Belgium "mogen ze de pot op" (if somme one can and will translate) Cheers, Jamme Edited March 24, 2011 by Jamme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngtiger1 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) Oh man, that is a sad news. I'm sorry Martin. If you ever comeout with anything from your own company then you got my support. Please do not make assumptions about the identity of the company in China being those you have named unless you have proof that it was, there are a lot of companies out there who do injection moulding and they are spread all over the place. We don't have proof on B-25 or other kits mentioned but I do know that Trumpeter copied Zactomans parts to correct their mistakes on their 1st issue of Su-27. I know becuse I have both kit and I also have Chris resin set to match. In fact, Chris posted pic over on ARC show his work and copy parts from trumpeter 27. They used his part without his consent. So, only time will tell how's lable on the Martins kits. Mike Edited March 24, 2011 by Youngtiger1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David66 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I can't really add anything to what everyone else has said. I feel terrible for Martin, he's always been very honest about the Wingscale kits and I've never failed to be impressed by the way he's always let us know what's going on with the B-25s and other projects. I guess what makes it worse is that the kits are, as far as I can see, to all intents and purposes complete and ready to go on sale. I have to say that these were my own, personal, most anticipated kits for the longest time, even went so far as ordering a shed load of Aires resin .50 Cal m.gs as well as Master turned brass .50 cal barrels and Kits-World decals. This news is a real kick-in-the-teeth for Martin and Wingscale and I hope that his future projects all come to fruition, hopefully with a partner that can be trusted. Personally, I'm still looking forward to the P-61, B-17, B-26, A-26 and A-20 kits. I hope that some good comes out of all this and that Wingscale emerge, re-built and, to para-phrase a well known '70s tv show, "Better, Faster, Stronger" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blunce Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Well, that sux big time! Sorry to hear about your misfortune, though on the bright side, I really only had plans to purchase the P-61 and B-26 in the realistic near future. Hopefully these are still going to be released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony in NZ Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Like the others Martin, this is terrible news for you. You know you will have our utmost support for future projects! Dont give up And thanks for giving the world a 32nd B25, B-17 and Meteor!!! I dont think we would have seen onw without your drive and ambition. Cheers Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill M. Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Whomever has the project now will no doubt be trying to "finish" the project most likely without the participation of the subject matter experts Martin had and most certainly without my modest input. In addition to how Martin was taken advantage of, this is the sad part of this for those of us looking forward to the B-25's and B-17's. Martin and his associates were doing the research to get these kits right. Based on past experience, I don't have the same sort of confidence with the new "partners" in China who replaced Wingscale. I know there have been some really nice kits come out of China in recent years, however, we have seen some disasters as well. These "disasters" have usually been the result of not doing the necessary research or consulting with the "experts" in the know. I fear that this will happen with the B-17 project. Too bad-- I really wanted a good B-17, particularly a B-17F. It will take a lot of persuasion to get me to buy that B-17 now-- or the B-25 for that matter. Bill M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radub Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Shame, such a shame! I was looking forward to this one. Radu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smudger Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Man that sucks for Martin & Wingscale. My pre-order is getting cancelled immediately after finishing this post. No matter who brings it out in place of Wingscale I no longer want it or need it - I have more than enough kits in my stash to see my life out - so, to whoever shafted Wingscale (if you are reading) shove the B-25 right yer jacksey, you will NOT be getting any of my hard earned $$$$$$$$$. Nuff said, rant over, time for a beer, good luck to Martin & Wingscale in the future. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattlow Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Martin I think the best thing to do is get straight on with your next project. If nothing else you have established the WingScale name as a quality researcher/producer and have already mapped out the next few projects. I presume it is the creation of the molds that is the Chinese side of the operation? Revell Germany appear to be able to get world class injection molding done in Poland (I think) and at a price which outcompetes the far eastern companies. Do they still get their molds manufactured in Asia or are there Eastern European countries doing this? I hope you are able to pick up from where you've been left and can satisfy your ambition to produce some 1/32 twins under the WingScale brand. Best of luck with your efforts. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alaninaustria Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) This is really bad news, and I am sorry for you Martin. You were doing things right and correct from the get go! As for tooling companies, there is excess capacity to be found in almost all tooling comapnies because of the drop in automobile manufacturing. There are a few companies in Eastern Europe that can do tooling, but the majority is to be found in Asia (Korea/China). I suspect that Martin cracked the market to expose to the Chinese what he always believed and they refused to believe until proven otherwise: twin engine 32nd scale kits will sell in this market... now the tooling costs are being used to lever the tooling out of Wingscale's realm and into the Chinese tooling company's.... Martin, I am soo sorry. I hope that things will work out for you! But, for what it is worth... thanks for the honesty and regular information updates. Your commitment to detail and open, honest communication is a rarity in today's world! Best regards, Alan Edited March 24, 2011 by alaninaustria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Matt Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Wow....not good at all. Really am so terribly sorry to hear that Martin. A tough gig doing business in a country with over a billion culturally diverse people all trying to make a living. Beyond any ability to generalise. I sense politically this is a bad move for any company with designs on your IP. I can sense the backlash feelings coming. $$ aren't everything for some of us. Dare I take a trip to Hyperscale!...should be entertaining... cuppa first Cheers Matty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerosystem Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 ain't that a serious kick to the jimmies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airscale Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Wow - So reassuring that 'quality' and 'compromise' don't appear in the same sentence from Wingscale - and the outcome is a loss to us all Martin - whatever is next I wish you well, and rest assured you have our support - and I thought I had it tough as a start up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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