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Everything posted by mattlow

  1. Yep, about three posts up.. Matt
  2. Excellent work... The 109 has come out really nicely. I like the idea of using less contrasting panel line washes... it's often overdone (to my taste). The stands add a new dimension.... this come s from Uschi...? Matt
  3. Many of Jerry's books were at the higher end of the cost spectrum when on general release (not saying they weren't worth every £/$). Now they seem to be the domain of rather high collector prices. So keep your eyes peeled for a bargain (I have picked up Eagle Editions/Classic books in charity shops for very reasonable prices). Otherwise, hope for reprints.. Matt
  4. Some of us are interested in the subject for its own sake, and not just to facilitate the assembly and accurate (hopefully) representation of the colours and finishes of a particular period. I found a really interesting thread over on 12 O'clock High which is just like one of our modelling discussions about colour... just that this concerns a real Me 163... http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=10115 So, in many ways we, as interested modellers, are actually working alongside the guys restoring the real aircraft (maybe somewhat ahead of them in some cases...
  5. Vincent!! We had 249 replies and 6,842 views on this thread. You fell out with one person, I think the rest of us were more than happy with the material that was being presented.. the very fact you have access to primary sources is what made your contribution so useful.... You English is as good as many folk who were born and bred here... This s a big shame... Matt
  6. Please don't remove your contributions Vincent. I suppose getting to page 17 without a 'meltdown' was an achievement... I read most of Ullmann's Luftwaffe Colours 1935-1945 yesterday and am still reeling somewhat, especially from the detail and plethora of numeric designations of the lacquers and the lacquer groups some of your explanations above have been very useful in making sense of what they actually mean (which is why they're valuable stuff). If I come across anything else which I think is useful, I'll post it here. Maybe others will chip in. I hope
  7. I don't really agree. It is difficult for us to really debate as there's not really a structure, we're darting around as various aspects catch our attention. Back to the explanation, I think the main thing that you are premising your argument on is that paint was re-formulated 'late in the war'. Most of the paints we discuss aren't late in the war in terms of introduction (though of course the two in the original thread title are) and even in terms of 81/82 we're not sure of their origins, so they may not be as late as the term would suggest. As I think you said, the
  8. Thanks Vincent... I need to digest this and give you a break from my incessant questions...( and think of some more.. ) This is great stuff. Thanks Matt
  9. Useful... Just because it is one of the only 'higher number' colours we haven't mentioned, what about RLM 80. I sometimes wonder if it is to be more associated with 78 and 79 or with the 'green group' of (80) 81 and 82.. Do we know how it came about? was it 'designed' to complement 79 on uppersurfaces of tropical schemes? I hardly ever even think of RLM 72 and 73 but just thought I'd mention them for completeness. Did they have a special formulation due to their maritime application? Regarding your last post, is the 7140/7141 indicating the use as a finish
  10. Aha! Thanks. But our friends RLM 81 and 82 would be no problemo as they are (in their recorded variety) always green or brown (violet).. so they could be produced as combo paints... I can really buy into the idea of 76 becoming more green/yellowish as the quality of the blue-grey pigment got worse... Thanks Vincent, I feel like I am actually learning some useful stuff here. Matt
  11. So finding a document mentioning 7122 .81 or 7122 .82 would be rather useful..
  12. I believe I have seen the images of Me 262s with a very thin spray of RLM 81 that does allow the putty in the panel lines to show through. That would suggest that 81 maybe was also a 'combo' paint (I like that term).. It would surely make sense to make any of the new primary camo colours 'combo' paint formulations for exactly the reasons you've mentioned Vincent (weight/time/resource use) why paint entire airframe in 76 if you can use the uppersurface camo colours without an undercoat as well.. I'd assume the formulation could be given any pigment you wished, so it'd me
  13. There's a series of Signal magazine photos of one of the Bf 109G production lines where all the aircraft are painted in a light blue colour (I always thought it looked more like RLM 65 but that could be due to age of photos etc). The use of 76 as a primer answers the overall application of the colour which had in the past seemed a little illogical. That would also explain (as we'd touched on way back - Gazzas I believe) the overall 76 airframes coming out of Mtt after they lost their paint shop. I can't get to my books at the moment, but I'm sure there's a two part number reference
  14. So may I ask (we know from what you said earlier that RLM 76 moved from a finishing paint to a primer paint) is there any evidence that 81 and 82 were of a similar 'multi-purpose' composition? Matt
  15. I'm not sure lighting would explain the presence of a green tinged RLM 66 but in close proximity to what we'd call standard RLM 66. I think there's clearly a colour difference, it is seen in Me 163 as well (some photos somewhere). A preservative... well, it'd have to have been sprayed very carefully to avoid getting over other parts and as Vincent says, it has been found on components not subject to post war treatments. To be honest, I don't any problem with the idea that there was a change in the appearance of RLM 66 at some late point in the war... why not? We're happ
  16. Totally agree. That's why I sort of suggested looking at the factories. supply chains/logistics instead of (for a while at least) trying to decipher similar colours from B/W photos... What appears chaotic may well not be at all. There could be logic that we just aren't looking for properly. Your approach moves us in that direction. Yes, it is VERY clear... Apologies for the following if it is 'clumsy', but is this all linked to the move to making some of these 'colours' also function as primers? You also said earlier that RLM 76 was formulated (re-formulated?) as a prim
  17. Vincent, that's interesting and I'd never really thought about it to that extent. So two questions: 1. Would there have been 'strategic' stockpiles of paints held somewhere else? I have little to no knowledge of the industry (happy for links to anything available) and how it produced the paints and stored them. I doubt that 1940s Germany had a 'just in time' system like many manufacturers do now (we see lots of images, post war of piles of specific aircraft components stockpiled for use; 2. We all say 'stocks' as translated from the relevant document, however, is t
  18. Cleaned up version I found... looks like a newer scan of the original slide..? DSC07669 by Matt Low, on Flickr
  19. And courtesy of the San Diego Air & Space Museum...... here she is before re-painting... Lovely quality colour photo... Part of a set with some other tasty Luftwaffe, IJAF and US types... Messerschmitt Me163A, 191301, Wright Field, 1946 victory display 003920015 by SDASM Archives, on Flickr
  20. Well, not to be contrary or anything, but any of these machines that have been painted over rather than stripped and 'restored' are still very valuable because the original paint is still there. The layers can be sanded down through and notes made of the paint layers. Two examples come to mind, the AWM have done an 'excavation by sanding' on the Me 262, black X and most remarkably, the Fleet Air Arm museum at Yeovilton (not a million miles from me) have sanded a FAA Corsair back down to its original markings.. I mean it isn't pristine, but it is the original finish. That's why I be
  21. I suspect another reason to use up the stocks of 70/71 (maybe 65 as well) was that the quality of that paint would probably have been higher than the more recently produced paint. I don't suspect anyone n the industry or the Luftwaffe agonised over the colours' specific hues anything like as much as we do.. Martin has good points about stability of the paints affecting what we get to see - some of the machines we see photos of are taken some weeks/months after the end of hostilities. I recall there are some nice 'modern' photos of the 'Point Cooke' (is that the Austral
  22. Very effective hairspray technique. Looks very authentic.. Matt
  23. Looking good. I am a fan of these Eduard 109s (and the new range of 190s). You've done a nice job on the paint, I look forward to seeing it all fully painted. Matt
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