Border models is at it again...

[LSP_Ray]

Seriously, Tamiya wrote 1/35th gave the proper width to fit batteries and motor into a Panther lower hull. They were a ways away from thinking about figures yet.

[MikeC]

The three main aircraft scales (oh and btw, a helicopter is an aircraft: all helicopters are aircraft but not all aircraft are helicopters) have a direct relationship to each other.

1 inch = 6 feet in 1/72

1 inch = 4 feet in 1/48

1 inch = 2 ft 8 in in 1/32.

Eh? How is that direct?

Multiply by 3, then

3 in = 18 ft in 1/72

3 in = 12 ft in 1/48

3 in = 8 ft in 1/32.

 

It's a ratio of 1:1.5, so any dmension on an LSP is 1.5 times as large as on a 1/48 model.  Rather appeals to my tidy mind.

 

Buy and build 1/35 if you like, it's your modelling pound/dollar/euro/other currencies are available; but 1/35 just isn't for me, I have enough in proper scales to be getting on with (see Shoggz's Stash thread).

[Cheetah11]

5 hours ago, LSP_Ray said:

Seriously, Tamiya wrote 1/35th gave the proper width to fit batteries and motor into a Panther lower hull. They were a ways away from thinking about figures yet.

 

Hi Ray

My sons gave me a Dragon 1/35 Panther with the two option boxing a while ago. Instead of wasting an entire hull and turret I bought an old Tamiya Panther to use the parts on the extra hull in the Dragon kit. And guess what. The Tamiya parts are visibly larger. After a quick measurement they are closer to 1/32 than 1/35. Actually 1/33 in length. 

I also have a wreck of a 1/25 Tamiya Panther which I hope to rebuild sometime in the future. After the observation with the 1/35th models I decided to measure the 1/25 Panther. And same story. The hull is closer to 1/24 and the turret is 6 mm wide. A bit of cutting and pasting will be required to get the proportions right.

Cheers

Nick

[Mark_C]

11 hours ago, monthebiff said:

Equally could someone explain why the AM producers are not interested in 35th scale planes?

 

Shall we discuss l

 

Regards. Andy 

 

*cough*

 

https://www.eduard.com/aircraft-and-helicopters/other/2/?cur=2#nextproducts

 

https://www.eduard.com/aircraft-and-helicopters/other/bf-109g-6-1-35-1.html?cur=2

[thierry laurent]

Hi,

 

Actually the history about Tamiya and the 1/35 scale is a little bit more complex. The Panther A tank most people are refering to is NOT the initial 1/35 Tamiya Panther tank. The original was actually made in 1961 whereas the well-known Panther A model was only made in 1968. Both were very different.

You can see them on scalemates: https://www.scalemates.com/kits/tamiya-1-german-tank-panther--347436 and https://www.scalemates.com/kits/tamiya-mt223-panzerkampfwagen-v-panther--347433

If you think the 1968 one vaguely looked like a Panther, I can tell you the 1961 kit was FAR worse! Simply look at that after a deep breath! Note the "Tiger II" decal probably explains they did not really know what was an actual Panther tank... Not really surprising because the Tamiya models of the sixties were only made from... some pictures! They only started measuring full scale vehicles from the seventies.

 

Moreover, Tamiya 1/35 standardization only arrived at the end of the sixties decade. It even looks they did not create the first 1/35 model but this is not surprising because at that time there were models in close to every scale! During the sixties they also released AFVs in other weird scales such as 1/21, 1/50 or 1/55! It is true they were the first to decide to standardize progressively AFVs models in 1/35 and for whatever reason this was based on approximate measurements of that inital Panther dog. Useless to say that the initial so-called 1/35 Panther tank kit had not the same hull dimensions than the 1968 one that was still inaccurate! The first relatively correct 1/35 Panther tank with regard to hull and turret main dimensions was released by Nichimo in 1974 and... it was also motorized! So the batteries size were not the only reason for the dimension inaccuracies of such sixties models. There were other examples of successive generations of Tamiya 1/35 models of the same AFV that had clearly different dimensions. I think this was just a product of the time as models were intended for children and accuracy was not really a major criterion... This hopefully evolved but that scale stayed. Too bad as this is why we are now struggling between two scales!

 

 

[thierry laurent]

Retrospectively, when I'm looking at the picture of that tank with the big German crosses I've the strange feeling it is coming right out of a sixties Sergeant Rock comics book! I'm wondering if this was not the reference used by the Tamiya designer of that era...

 

P.S. I corrected my text as it was obviously sergeant Rock rather than the famous sergeant York!

[Tony T]

On 4/18/2024 at 1:45 PM, Tony T said:

The box says it "includes an air bomb".

When I was younger that meant a gas bottle for the soda siphon. 

Nowadays I'm guessing self-administered nitrous oxide.

 

Tony 

 

19 hours ago, monthebiff said:

Not just any bomb has been included Ron but an "Air Bomb" !!!

Could someone please explain what a WW2 Allied "air bomb' is?

...

Regards. Andy 

 

It doesn't specify WW2 Allied, but they obviously (?) are referring to a finned air-delivered bomb-shaped plastic assembly item to glue underneath somewhere.

 

As for 1:35 scale, by and large I'm ignoring it, the way I have done with helicopter kits for donkey's years.

I will, however, take to it if Border et al start doing Cold War jets, particularly Vietnam era jets like the Thud, Voodoo, Vark, Phantom, Scooter, SLUF etc.  TBH, 1:32 is a fraction too big for many Cold War jets, but we do like standardisation for any collection, otherwise we'd be happy with toy town box scale.

 

Tony

 

[cbk57]

1 hour ago, thierry laurent said:

Retrospectively, when I'm looking at the picture of that tank with the big German crosses I've the strange feeling it is coming right out of a sixties Sergeant York comics book! I'm wondering if this was not the reference used by the Tamiya designer of that era...

Sgt York? Or Sgt Rock?  I was never a comics person but a friend of mine in the 70s was into Sgt Rock comics.  

 

In any event going back to the 1/35 Tamiya thing, those early kits were seen more as Toys than as serious models so I just don:t think Tamiya or anyone else cared all that much about real accuracy.  I was an avid armor modeler first once I became more serious and in the 80s I built most of the Tamiya armor catalog.  As such even then they allowed for battery packs in a large percentage of kits although I only ever owned one Tamiya kit to my memory that came with the mechanical parts and in fact did build it and run it on batteries.  My first tamiya kit might have been their Panzer IV motorized version and I had parental help building it.  I remember playing with it and running it under batter power probably around 1977ish.  

 

We have gone around and around on this scale debate, at this point it just is.  Border for their own reasons are into 1/35.  It is not clear to me that anyone else is following them.  They are trying to do something different I assume to carve out their own space in larger scale planes.  We all know what pays the bills in the modeling world and that leaves a company like border treading a well beaten path.  Your can keep tooling the same subjects in 1/32 that everyone else has or you can split and go down the 1/35 path doing your own thing that kind of works with an existing parallel modeling universe.  I actually thought when this thread started it was something new and was disapointed to find out our formites were arguing once again about a Border 1/35 Spitfire Mk V which I believe they announced about a year ago  and we proceed to have the same argument every time border releases a new kit or someone decides to talk about Border.  Maybe that makes Border the smartest model company on the planet as they get free advertising on our forum and in our heads just by announcing anything in 1/35.

 

I still have not yet purchased a Border kit.  The first announcement i have seen from them that I am remotely interested in is the He-111 but not sure I would buy and build one.   So far I think Border is over rated from an engineering and quality standpoint.  They certainly nail complexity but sheer complexity is not a chief selling point to me, when I am choosing a modeling subject.  It won:t put me off but it is not a priority.     

 

My goal for this year is to learn just enough Japanese to write and prepare a fake apology letter slash announcement to be released for April 1, 2025 in which Tamiya announces that they apologize for every releasing or having anything to do with 1/35 and are buying back all of their 1/35 kits every released to replace them with new issue 1/32 versions.  By then most of you will forget about my post and we should all get a good laugh out of it, just to confuse you I will post it on an armor forum on facebook.  Then it will filter through as a rumor and soon become a fact.

[LSP_K2]

25 minutes ago, cbk57 said:

Sgt York? Or Sgt Rock?  I was never a comics person but a friend of mine in the 70s was into Sgt Rock comics. 

 

I have several dozen old Sgt Rock comics, have had them for years now.

[LSP_K2]

19 hours ago, denders said:

1" = 6 feet and 1" = 12 feet.

 

I've still got a feeling that 1/35 was an approximation for a 6' person to be 2" high.

 

As a general rule though, typical/standard modeling scales are usually 1" (or a fractional portion thereof), equaling 1"-0", or at least that has been my understanding for decades.

 

1" = 1'-0" (1:12)

3/4" = 1'-0" 1:16)

1/2" = 1'-0" (1:24)

3/8" = 1'-0" (1:32)

1/4" = 1'-0" (1:48)

1/8" = 1'-0" (1:96)

[monthebiff]

11 hours ago, Mark_C said:

 

*cough*

 

https://www.eduard.com/aircraft-and-helicopters/other/2/?cur=2#nextproducts

 

https://www.eduard.com/aircraft-and-helicopters/other/bf-109g-6-1-35-1.html?cur=2

I stand corrected but is there anyone else apart from Eduard dipping their toe in the water yet?

 

Regards. Andy

[LSP_Ray]

9 hours ago, thierry laurent said:

Hi,

 

Actually the history about Tamiya and the 1/35 scale is a little bit more complex. The Panther A tank most people are refering to is NOT the initial 1/35 Tamiya Panther tank. The original was actually made in 1961 whereas the well-known Panther A model was only made in 1968. Both were very different.

You can see them on scalemates: https://www.scalemates.com/kits/tamiya-1-german-tank-panther--347436 and https://www.scalemates.com/kits/tamiya-mt223-panzerkampfwagen-v-panther--347433

If you think the 1968 one vaguely looked like a Panther, I can tell you the 1961 kit was FAR worse! Simply look at that after a deep breath! Note the "Tiger II" decal probably explains they did not really know what was an actual Panther tank... Not really surprising because the Tamiya models of the sixties were only made from... some pictures! They only started measuring full scale vehicles from the seventies.

 

Moreover, Tamiya 1/35 standardization only arrived at the end of the sixties decade. It even looks they did not create the first 1/35 model but this is not surprising because at that time there were models in close to every scale! During the sixties they also released AFVs in other weird scales such as 1/21, 1/50 or 1/55! It is true they were the first to decide to standardize progressively AFVs models in 1/35 and for whatever reason this was based on approximate measurements of that inital Panther dog. Useless to say that the initial so-called 1/35 Panther tank kit had not the same hull dimensions than the 1968 one that was still inaccurate! The first relatively correct 1/35 Panther tank with regard to hull and turret main dimensions was released by Nichimo in 1974 and... it was also motorized! So the batteries size were not the only reason for the dimension inaccuracies of such sixties models. There were other examples of successive generations of Tamiya 1/35 models of the same AFV that had clearly different dimensions. I think this was just a product of the time as models were intended for children and accuracy was not really a major criterion... This hopefully evolved but that scale stayed. Too bad as this is why we are now struggling between two scales!

 

 

Thierry is correct! The first Panther had nothing to do with what you can find anywhere now. They had a completely different logo, too. And BTW, if by some stroke of luck you find one of the above Panther kits, Tamiya is looking for a copy for its company museum as no one thought to keep a copy! They would pay big bucks for one assuming they haven't found one yet.

[thierry laurent]

3 hours ago, cbk57 said:

Sgt York? Or Sgt Rock?  I was never a comics person but a friend of mine in the 70s was into Sgt Rock comics.  

Ooops! Sorry! You're right! I corrected my text.

[docdodj01]

On 4/18/2024 at 4:24 PM, Gazzas said:

Is it me, or does the boxart look similar to the eduard "Spitfire Tallyho! Spitfire IIb" boxing?

[MikeC]

4 hours ago, LSP_K2 said:

 

As a general rule though, typical/standard modeling scales are usually 1" (or a fractional portion thereof), equaling 1"-0", or at least that has been my understanding for decades.

 

1" = 1'-0" (1:12)

3/4" = 1'-0" 1:16)

1/2" = 1'-0" (1:24)

3/8" = 1'-0" (1:32)

1/4" = 1'-0" (1:48)

1/8" = 1'-0" (1:96)

Yep, just another way of expressing it. One story I heard was that 1/72 was picked because 1" represented 6 ft, thus roughly the height of a man.