Bf 109 F on the cheap

[Chek]

So anyway just getting ducks in a row here, I refuse to pay the outlandish prices being asked for the Hasegawa Bf 109F, and Radu doesn't rate the Trumpy kits, which is good enough for me..

I'm no 109 expert, but think that by using the Revell Bf 109 G-6 (relatively cheap and available in the UK), taking off the cowl MG beule and intakes ahead of the exhausts and making good, then using a Bf 109 E-4 vac canopy and aftermarket E wheels should be 99% of the way there. Wing rads and oil cooler under nose scoop look v. similar.

I'm not particularly bothered about cockpit detail as a closed canopy is planned.

Thoughts and suggestions - or thoughts and prayers, as appropriate - invited.

[Radub]

Honestly, when I was talking about the issues with the Trumpeter kits, my intention was to point out what needs to be fixed, rather than discourage people from building them. The Trumpeter kits are not entirely perfect but they can be used when nothing else is available. I have seen them built and they look fine. Some of the problems are related to the engine and if you plan to make a model with closed cowls, then that is not a problem. The rudder is a tad too short in chord and you can get a replacement from spares box or aftermarket. The underside of the nose as well as the cover of the oil tank just behind the spinner are the biggest issue, that whole area is not the right shape - it just lacks that hard to describe shape (“hamster cheeks”?) dictated by the wide bottom of the engine making the nose look “pointy”. That can be fixed with some putty. You will need a new propeller spinner. There are aftermarket cockpits for the F.
Whether you start with Trumpeter or Revell, you still need to put in some work. 

Radu

Edited December 15, 2021 by Radub

[dodgem37]

People do overprice that kit.

 

Sincerely,

Mark

[Kagemusha]

Another route is the Revell/Monogram Bf 109G-4 kit, which has been available cheap, together with the Aires Bf 109F conversion, which again can be acquired for a reasonable price.

 

If you post a request in the Traders Board you might get lucky.

[Chek]

4 hours ago, Radub said:

Honestly, when I was talking about the issues with the Trumpeter kits, my intention was to point out what needs to be fixed, rather than discourage people from building them. The Trumpeter kits are not entirely perfect but they can be used when nothing else is available. I have seen them built and they look fine. Some of the problems are related to the engine and if you plan to make a model with closed cowls, then that is not a problem. The rudder is a tad too short in chord and you can get a replacement from spares box or aftermarket. The underside of the nose as well as the cover of the oil tank just behind the spinner are the biggest issue, that whole area is not the right shape - it just lacks that hard to describe shape (“hamster cheeks”?) dictated by the wide bottom of the engine making the nose look “pointy”. That can be fixed with some putty. You will need a new propeller spinner. There are aftermarket cockpits for the F.
Whether you start with Trumpeter or Revell, you still need to put in some work. 

Radu

 

Thanks Radu. I take your point which would be good advice for a standalone model, but as I want the F to look consistent in a line with other 109 types I'd rather avoid the pointy nose look. I'm planning on using the Barracuda prop/spinner sets, but will busk the interior for a closed cockpit

1 hour ago, Kagemusha said:

Another route is the Revell/Monogram Bf 109G-4 kit, which has been available cheap, together with the Aires Bf 109F conversion, which again can be acquired for a reasonable price.

 

If you post a request in the Traders Board you might get lucky.

 

Thanks K., I hadn't considered that one. I'll check it out, especially as it comes with North Africa markings.

[Mark P]

"Hamster cheeks"? That's a first time I've heard that description used on a 109! 

 

Mark Proulx

[Radub]

2 hours ago, Mark P said:

"Hamster cheeks"? That's a first time I've heard that description used on a 109! 

 

Mark Proulx

 

I know, it is not the best description. As I said, it hard to describe. That shape is evident when you are "face-to-face" with a Bf 109 but it is very hard to capture in 2D photos. 

Here are some photos of "Black 6" from their superb Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/Me109-Black-6-352717801421301/

 

If you look at the bottom where the cover for the oil tank meets the lower cowl, you can see that the transition from a circular shape behind the spinner to the flatter shape at the front of the lower cowl causes those "bulges" that I was trying to describe. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And now that you know where to look, have a look at this: 

 

 

 

Anyway, the shape of the Bf 109 nose is quite complex and whereas Hasegawa and Revell did a good job of capturing it in 1/32, Trumpeter just missed all the subtleties. 

  

 

HTH 

Radu 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mark P]

Radu, I meant no disrespect at all. In fact, you put a welcomed smile on my face...

 

Thanks!

 

Mark Proulx

Edited December 15, 2021 by Mark P

[Radub]

24 minutes ago, Mark P said:

Radu, I meant no disrespect at all. In fact, you put a welcomed smile on my face...

 

Thanks!

 

Mark Proulx

 

No problem at all, I did not take it as a form of disrespect either.  

Radu 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Radub

[Mark P]

Radu:

 

Now, because of you, whenever I see a photo of hamster cheeks, I will immediately think of a Bf 109!

 

Mark Proulx

 

[BiggTim]

1 hour ago, Radub said:

 

I know, it is not the best description. As I said, it hard to describe. That shape is evident when you are "face-to-face" with a Bf 109 but it is very hard to capture in 2D photos. 

Here are some photos of "Black 6" from their superb Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/Me109-Black-6-352717801421301/

 

If you look at the bottom where the cover for the oil tank meets the lower cowl, you can see that the transition from a circular shape behind the spinner to the flatter shape at the front of the lower cowl causes those "bulges" that I was trying to describe. 

 

 

 

 

 

I have to admit that I never noticed that subtle nuance before, and you're dead right that it is not reproduced very well in many kits. Hamster cheeks is pretty funny, too!

[thierry laurent]

One way to hide the nose shape issue of the Trumpeter kit is to open the lower nose as different companies made such a lower nose and radiator set of parts to detail the Hasegawa kit. This will not be a perfect drop fit but will ask for less work than re-profiling the nose 

[RBrown]

Chek, if you can wait a bit Revell is releasing an early G next spring, it should have the correct gun troughs for the F series.  If you can can get a E canopy the conversion is really not that involved...

 

Converting Revell G-6 to an F

 

Fuselage:

1. Remove cooling scoops on each side of forward fuselage.

2. Rework gun troughs and locate slightly forward of their present position or use Revell early G instead of G-6 kit.

3.The kit will require extensive modification to the kit canopy,  Dragons Bf 109 E-4 canopy will work in lieu of reworking the Revell item.

4. Scribe fuel filler below cockpit.

5. Remove kit's fuel filler on fuselage spine.

6. Reduce width and diameter of tail wheel.

7. Modify kit oil cooler to a more shallow configuration for F-2 and early F-4.  Size is OK for late F-4s and Trop machines, but shape is poor.

8. Remove access hatch on left fuselage immediately forward of tail assembly.

9. Remove MW filler point on right fuselage.

10. Remove primer filler point on fuselage.

11. Reduce width of prop blades, kit blade can suffice for F-4Z.

12. Add reinforcing plates at junction of fuselage and tail assembly. Check photos, these were present on most aircraft, even late delivery F-4 featured these.

13. F-2 and early F-4 supercharger intake needs to be modified to a thinner and slightly longer configuration. Kit intake is OK for late F-4.

 

Wings/ landing gear:

1. Remove kidney shaped bulges on upper wing and corresponding recess in wheel wells.

2. Most F-4 had circular wheel wells, F-2 wells usually as on G series.

3. Replace main wheels with spoke type and reduce tire width, Revell pending early G should have the spoked hub.

 

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by RBrown

[Chek]

15 minutes ago, RBrown said:

Chek, if you can wait a bit Revell is releasing an early G next spring, it should have the correct gun troughs for the F series.  If you can can get a E canopy the conversion is really not that involved...

 

Converting Revell G-6 to an F

 

Fuselage:

1. Remove cooling scoops on each side of forward fuselage.

2. Rework gun troughs and locate slightly forward of their present position or use Revell early G instead of G-6 kit.

3.The kit will require extensive modification to the kit canopy,  Dragons Bf 109 E-4 canopy will work in lieu of reworking the Revell item.

4. Scribe fuel filler below cockpit.

5. Remove kit's fuel filler on fuselage spine.

6. Reduce width and diameter of tail wheel.

7. Modify kit oil cooler to a more shallow configuration for F-2 and early F-4.  Size is OK for late F-4s and Trop machines, but shape is poor.

8. Remove access hatch on left fuselage immediately forward of tail assembly.

9. Remove MW filler point on right fuselage.

10. Remove primer filler point on fuselage.

11. Reduce width of prop blades, kit blade can suffice for F-4Z.

12. Add reinforcing plates at junction of fuselage and tail assembly. Check photos, these were present on most aircraft, even late delivery F-4 featured these.

13. F-2 and early F-4 supercharger intake needs to be modified to a thinner and slightly longer configuration. Kit intake is OK for late F-4.

 

Wings/ landing gear:

1. Remove kidney shaped bulges on upper wing and corresponding recess in wheel wells.

2. Most F-4 had circular wheel wells, F-2 wells usually as on G series.

3. Replace main wheels with spoke type and reduce tire width, Revell pending early G should have the spoked hub.

 

 

 

Thanks, tht's all very helpful info. I'm tracking a Revell (and I presume ex-Hasegawa) 109 G-4 presently, but the new Revell sounds even better.

I have the Amur Reaver gun trough top deck, though obviously they're for the 13 mm guns. But I'd assumed the spacing would be right for most F/G/K types.

And thanks, I hadn't forgotten removing the upper wing wheel blisters. Access panel rescribing is expected, so thanks for the rundown.

[RBrown]

The spacing of the gun troughs on the real G-6 is wider than on the F.  The Revell troughs are incorrectly spaced for a G-6 but, somewhat ironically, correct for a F.  The F trough shape is the same as the G-1 thru G-4, but significantly different from the later Gs.