RAF FG.1 XV571 WILD HARE Phantom Conversion

[LSP_Kevin]

Just superb, Anthony!

 

Kev

[Anthony in NZ]

33 minutes ago, MDuv said:

This is looking Phenomenal ! (With a ph !)

The riveting job really makes it. Can’t wait to see her painted.

Thanks I can’t wait to see paint too.

 

33 minutes ago, LSP_Kevin said:

Just superb, Anthony!

 

Kev

 Thanks Kev, let’s just hope I can see her to the finish line!

 

Cheers guys 

Anthony

[Anthony in NZ]

Forgot my favorite photo...

 

Also for those interested in a set of the parts Kerry CAD'd up for me, great news is that @Ali62 is going to do a run of them for those interested.  This will be a HUGE help for any of you contemplating this conversion.  A lot of work went in to get these right.

 

 

Hope it is going to help those of you contemplating this conversion

 

Cheers Anthony

[Derek B]

1 hour ago, Anthony in NZ said:

Forgot my favorite photo...

 

Also for those interested in a set of the parts Kerry CAD'd up for me, great news is that @Ali62 is going to do a run of them for those interested.  This will be a HUGE help for any of you contemplating this conversion.  A lot of work went in to get these right.

 

 

Hope it is going to help those of you contemplating this conversion

 

Cheers Anthony

 

Looking superb Anthony. Looks like you may start to make some headway soon? As always, I am ready to help out if I can (and want) on your next stage. 

 

Cheers

 

Derek

[Squizzy 78]

Amazing work Anthony! The work you’re doing is going the extra mile, and with paint and weathering, it’s going to be worth the effort, it’s just unbelievable!

[Anthony in NZ]

9 hours ago, Derek B said:

 

Looking superb Anthony. Looks like you may start to make some headway soon? As always, I am ready to help out if I can (and want) on your next stage. 

 

Cheers

 

Derek

Thanks Derek!  Without doubt you are my go-to guy for so much of what I have done.  Without your help so far this could not have happened mate.  For that I am ever grateful!  I will definitely be tapping back into your knowledge brain as I move forward

 

47 minutes ago, Squizzy said:

Amazing work Anthony! The work you’re doing is going the extra mile, and with paint and weathering, it’s going to be worth the effort, it’s just unbelievable!

Thanks very much!  I know the riveting is controversial, but the idea should hopefully pay off with the final painting and weathering as you say.  I questioned whether or not I should have done it after seeing a guy on FB getting 'told off' for riveting his Tamiya Phantom and a few couldnt understand why he did it either. I figure once it is painted they will pretty much disappear (as you can see by the front half with no Tamiya wash in it), but it allows me to use them where I want to especially on the belly and 'hi-use' areas on the wings, around some vents and stained areas on the rear fuse.  

 

I think I am trying to justify myself, but at the end of the day it is personal choice.  As long as I get her looking 'operational' and not tired and worn out  I should be ok

 

Cheers guys

Anthony

[mozart]

I've looked so hard for the warts Anthony but didn't spot one!  Just supreme modelling skills, not to mention the staying power that you have.  Phenomenal work. 

[Derek B]

12 hours ago, Anthony in NZ said:

Thanks very much!  I know the riveting is controversial, but the idea should hopefully pay off with the final painting and weathering as you say.  I questioned whether or not I should have done it after seeing a guy on FB getting 'told off' for riveting his Tamiya Phantom and a few couldnt understand why he did it either. I figure once it is painted they will pretty much disappear (as you can see by the front half with no Tamiya wash in it), but it allows me to use them where I want to especially on the belly and 'hi-use' areas on the wings, around some vents and stained areas on the rear fuse.  

 

I think I am trying to justify myself, but at the end of the day it is personal choice.  As long as I get her looking 'operational' and not tired and worn out  I should be ok

 

Hi Anthony,

 

Yes, I agree, it is a personal thing, so you have nothing to justify (so also probably a good reason not to take seriously what others say on FB to any extent). You can visualise what you want to achieve, but others only see what you have done so far and may be a little quick to criticise? Your rivet detailing so far is very good (and subtle - probably better than many IM kits, and, what's more, accurate!).

 

For what it's worth, this is my take on riveting (and of course, just my humble opinions based upon my observations of models in general and the full size aircraft):

 

There tend to be fads and trends in modelling circles from time to time, as a new way of artistry creates a new illusion or a demand creates new detail (pre/post-shading and mottle highlights and recessed panel lines and rivet detail for example). In the main, this is a good thing, as it advances both modelling skills and the quality of kits over time. However, it can also have its down sides as well (generally, everything overdone in order to enhance these features - if enough modellers copy these trends, there is always a risk that the models become caricature; almost like too much make up!).

 

Having a fully riveted and panelled model is great, but will only be as accurate as the reference you have, so for many modellers, they generally go with what is on the kit without actually checking for accuracy as it is difficult to do in many cases and they generally like the look of what is on the model as it is. Photographs of the real aircraft are the only really reliable reference (unless you are lucky to have access to manufactures drawings), then it becomes very clear what are actually fasteners and what are rivets (and their spacing, which can differ significantly across the airframe).

 

For many modellers, the thorny issue of whether or not to add rivet detail probably comes down to a few factors; scale, distance and perception. Some believe that from a few feet (arms length), six feet or several yards, you would not see and rivets or panel lines, so they should not be on the model? Others would say that on larger scale models, they would look wrong without them? Who is right? Well, I think that both are to some extent.

 

For me, subtlety is the key. An aircraft surface is somewhat like a work of oil on a canvas painting - from a distance, the eye perceives a whole unified image, but close up, the individual brush strokes become very evident, and when viewed from close up at an angle, then they become more so, with the addition of paint and canvas unevenness, which creates a completely different texture; this is how I see it with aircraft finishes also. The paint finish type used on an aircraft (and how it is applies) has a massive affect on the way that we perceive the colour and finish (matt absorbs light, gloss reflects, so details like rivets and fasteners will be easier to see at certain angles on a gloss aircraft compared to a matt finished one).

 

On small scale models, I generally don't add rivets but will represent a number of fasteners and panel lines by using a sharp pencil for this purpose; these are not even visible even one foot away, but close up, they are there and look convincing - this is adequate for me for small scale models. However, larger scales demand a degree of riveting and panel line detail; this is where you have done really well with your Phantom Anthony.

 

As stated, from a distance, the real aircraft looks smooth and free from detail. however, close up, and viewed from an acute angle is is far from so. The paint may be uniform, but its canvas (the airframe skin) often exhibits waviness (the so-called 'oil canning') and dimples/recesses. below is an example of this (note the dimpling of panels at fastener positions, especially under the windscreen area (a feature also observed on the nose of F-16 aircraft) and the recessed areas of skin where rivets are located):

 

F-4N

 

http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/weichao_chen/f-4n_150628/

 

On the Phantom, the whole airframe is a mixture of rivets (structural) and screw fasteners (stressed panels). On freshly painted aircraft, it is mostly the fastener heads and panels which are visible (although the rivets and skin panel lines are still there).

 

F-4E

 

http://www.grubbyfingersshop.com/walkaround_galleries/mdd_f-4e_phantom_ii_97208_raaf_museum_point_cook_2010/content/index.html

 

However, on worn or well used aircraft, rivet locations, fasteners and panels and skin lines are often visible (also, rivets work loose with vibration - especially at the aft end of the aircraft, so leave visible 'fret marks' in the form of dirt around the rivet head and streaking marks).

 

 

HAF F-4E

 

https://www.airteamimages.com/mcdonnell-douglas-f-4-phantom_01618_greece---hellenic-air-force_282338.html

 

https://www.maphotosg.com/hellenic-f-4e-phantom-ii/

 

So, it is entirely up to the individual how they wish to portray rivet and panel line details on any given model, as long as, like anything else in the modelling world, it is not over done! (sorry for the very long diatribe!).

 

Great work and good luck

 

Derek

Edited September 5, 2021 by Derek B

[Anthony in NZ]

Thanks @Derek B you have put into words what I was thinking...thank you sir!  I think you hit the nail on the head.  I have even seen glossy airliner engines with a bunch of 'smoking rivets' on them too.

 

I am going to go for something similar to this in places

 

 

 

Athough we have seen worse on operational Brit Tooms, but even XV571 before her fin got repainted got scruffy too

 

Cheers...I shall move on

Anthony

 

[Anthony in NZ]

Couple of wee repairs/tweaks to do and I am calling this side finished.  Then on to finish the other side up

 

Overall pretty happy with it

 

Cheers Anthony

 

[blackbetty]

stellar work, i love it!

[Derek B]

10 hours ago, Anthony in NZ said:

Thanks @Derek B you have put into words what I was thinking...thank you sir!  I think you hit the nail on the head.  I have even seen glossy airliner engines with a bunch of 'smoking rivets' on them too.

 

I am going to go for something similar to this in places

 

 

 

Athough we have seen worse on operational Brit Tooms, but even XV571 before her fin got repainted got scruffy too

 

Cheers...I shall move on

Anthony

 

 

I agree Anthony; that would be appropriate.

 

Derek

[MikeMaben]

[Madmax]

What a well considered, and worded, response from Derek. I'm all for rivets personally, and variation in paint finish.

 

Stick to your guns Anthony, it is looking fantastic!

[Anthony in NZ]

1 hour ago, blackbetty said:

stellar work, i love it!

Thank you!  It's been a mission to get to this point but I am seeing a light at the end of the tunnel with the bulk of the structural mods done

 

47 minutes ago, Derek B said:

 

I agree Anthony; that would be appropriate.

 

Derek

Thanks Derek.....

 

14 minutes ago, MikeMaben said:

Save me some popcorn Mike!

 

7 minutes ago, Madmax said:

What a well considered, and worded, response from Derek. I'm all for rivets personally, and variation in paint finish.

 

Stick to your guns Anthony, it is looking fantastic!

Yes @Derek B response was well put, thank you too, I think it will make a nice base for building up the layers

Cheers mate

 

And thanks to you all for commenting and reacting, I notice and appreciate every one.  I probably would have put her on the SOD by now otherwise!

 

Oh and @Jennings Heilig  I hope all the rivets dont put you off too much buddy!

 

Cheers Anthony