Antonio Argudo Posted August 10, 2019 Author Share Posted August 10, 2019 25 minutes ago, LSP_Matt said: The only 'museum level' method of determining colour accurately is to use a scientific instrument. An instrument that measures the reflected wavelength of light of different samples but which is calibrated from a standard. A reflected wavelength analysis will objectively determine what the colours of any objects are irrespective of our potentially fallible human visual system. I looked it up...a Multiangle Spectrophotometer. thanks Matty for your reply, I totally Agree with you so that's why I'm sending it to a professional who has a spectrocolorimeter and base color data, so more precise info we'll have cheers Antonio BiggTim, TAG, LSP_K2 and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kagemusha Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 But then as Jennings has alluded, it might not determine the true colour when applied due to ageing, it's like when you see a Great Master cleaned, the colours come back, but I guess using a different type of cleaner the colours might be a bit different, and it's impossible to determine what the exact colours were when applied. Fascinating, and I look forward to hearing the results. MikeMaben, LSP_Matt, Antonio Argudo and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonio Argudo Posted August 10, 2019 Author Share Posted August 10, 2019 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Kagemusha said: it's impossible to determine what the exact colours were when applied. Hi Kagemusha, yes probably true, but even getting close to the "Exact color" would be very interesting and worth the effort, cheers Edited August 10, 2019 by Antonio Argudo Derek B and BiggTim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vincent Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 (edited) Class 33 lacquers in RLM nomenclature means paints formulated to be applied on non metal supports, like wood in this case. Applying a metal class lacquer on the wood putty would damage it over time with possible dire consequences. You normally had a warning on every wood assembly stating "to be repaired only with class 33 aviation lacquers" like on the rudder fin from the auction This thread will be fun until we get the "parts in my garage" card, or the "my friends from the german paint industry" card or the "i'm an academic, you're not" card. Just to illustrate the minefield, i have few parts from a crashed Ju88A4 in Finland. Parts from the same time frame, same factory (they are not subcontracted) and at least 3 variations of RLM02 on them. So... Edited August 10, 2019 by Vincent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggTim Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 4 hours ago, LSP_Matt said: The human visual system interprets information but it's accuracy is affected by, a mans genes, neural processing or even ambient luminosity. This should be fun, collaborative and informative. Matty Pretty much exactly the point I was going to make. Our eyes and brains interpret color with very subtle differences from person to person, even without the differences in our tech. One thing that is undeniably obvious is that the three paint samples Antonio posted next to the relics match very well, even considering all the variables. I'd use them happily. Derek B, D.B. Andrus, Antonio Argudo and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonio Argudo Posted August 10, 2019 Author Share Posted August 10, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, BiggTim said: ne thing that is undeniably obvious is that the three paint samples Antonio posted next to the relics match very well, even considering all the variables. I'd use them happily. Thanks Tim for your words, this is comparative just for fun with the Monogram's Luftwaffe Painting Guide, also found this interesting video with paint colors comparison with AK interactive, Gunze Lacquer and Model Master paints, sadly is only in korean cheers Edited August 11, 2019 by Antonio Argudo Gazzas, D.B. Andrus and BiggTim 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzas Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 Great thread with great input! D.B. Andrus, Derek B, Antonio Argudo and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vincent Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 The 76 on your part looks to lean toward the so called "RLM84" hue. Regular 76 was plain blue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonio Argudo Posted August 11, 2019 Author Share Posted August 11, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Vincent said: The 76 on your part looks to lean toward the so called "RLM84" hue. Regular 76 was plain blue Thanks Vincent for your comment, I guess I'm going to have to refine my chart, a work in progress indeed, it is due to photography lighting, it looks more blueish in the flesh and to me matches with this relic in Poland, and also I can "feel" relation with the 76 on the airtake of the australian 109, it is a very intense color in the flesh, very particular one. cheers Edited August 11, 2019 by Antonio Argudo Derek B, Martinnfb and Gazzas 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Matt Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 23 hours ago, Antonio Argudo said: Thanks Vincent for your comment, I guess I'm going to have to refine my chart, a work in progress indeed, it is due to photography lighting, it looks more blueish in the flesh and to me matches with this relic in Poland, and also I can "feel" relation with the 76 on the airtake of the australian 109, it is a very intense color in the flesh, very particular one. cheers I took a heap of photos of the German planes in our Aussie War Memorial. They're in the walkaround section. If I recall correctly, the museum had gone to great lengths to preserve the original colours from WW2. If you approached the museum you might find they have some scientific information about the colours they could pass along. There's a Me262 and a Me163, V1 and more there as well. HTH. Cheers Matty Lothar, Derek B, D Bellis and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozart Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 ......but not great lighting conditions for good photography, especially where the Bf109 is hanging! Martinnfb and LSP_Matt 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony T Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 The RLM 74 looks definitely blue-grey to my eyes, and the 75 purple-grey. That's the way I've interpreted them for a very long time, so it's quite reassuring seeing these samples. Unfortunately, there are people who insist Kalamata olives are all exactly the same green-brown. They look at labels at not the contents. Tony Gazzas, RBrown, Antonio Argudo and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_K2 Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Tony T said: Unfortunately, there are people who insist Kalamata olives are all exactly the same green-brown. They look at labels at not the contents. Tony Interesting what you say about the olive color. I've seen several Fokker Dr.I kits painted up in a garish green that looks nothing like any olive color I've ever seen, but that's just me. Gazzas and Antonio Argudo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonio Argudo Posted August 12, 2019 Author Share Posted August 12, 2019 (edited) Thanks Tony and Kevin for your comments, today I've been doing some mixing paints to try to match my samples using Gunze Hobby Color Aqueous. in the first picture you can see both pure paints, on the right it is Gunze H417 "rlm 76" which is not a good match to my sample beside is Gunze H 314 (blue FS 35622 Israeli Kifir) straight out of the bottle, pretty close but misses a bit of blue tonality, I added a very small hint of pure blue, and 15% of white and finally got a decent representation of my sample ( some grime and dirt on the edge of my sample but can be seen but the center was fine sanded and cleaned) On the second picture it is my final mix, I used an old 1/32 "B" Mustang to do some spray test at least "B" Mustangs and 109's have some similar forms so, this for now, next I'll be spraying RLM 75 which I also got a good mix match for. cheers Edited August 12, 2019 by Antonio Argudo TAG and D.B. Andrus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiba Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Antonio Argudo said: "B" Mustang to do some spray test, at least B Mustangs and 109 have some similar forms Hi, Antonio, Very interesting thread and I like what you doing Thank you for sharing !! Regards, Matsu. Edited August 12, 2019 by Shiba Antonio Argudo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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