HK B-17F

[Hubert Boillot]

I am no B-17 expert, nor a buyer of the kit (unless the -F allows me to do a Boeing 307 conversion).

 

However, just lookign at some drawings, which admittedly have to be verified for accuracy, and working out some rough dimensions, the "flat" represents in 1/32 some 3.5/4 mm less than a perfect circle. Not a fraction of a mm, and more than the kit's skin thickness at this point.

 

Some will care about it, because it is a noticeable shape singularity, some won't ...

 

Cees, Jennings, you have a close relationship with HK Models, and Neil from all accounts seems a nice guy, really caring for accuracy and customers' feedback. I understand, for these reasons, that you defend a young company that deserves all the support it can - and I supported myself with my own cash by buying the Mossie - and try to instill reason in a debate to avoid any kind of kit- or company-bashing. I also respect your relation with HK and have no grudge against it.

 

But the balance has to be kept both ways, and the remarks of people caring for this aspect of the kit cannot be dismissed by oversimplifications or remarks in the style of "do you care anyway ?", IMHO.  Or you adopt a similar position whichever the company is ... . But I know, from your works and comments on other subjects that you both also care about accuracy for some kits, and strive for excellence (and pinpointing accuracy) in your decal designs, Jennings.

 

A discrepancy like the one about the nose section at cockpit level of the B-17 kit is worth noting, all the more so as it impacts other areas like the cockpit windows and windscreen (see brahman's B-17 D thread here to have an idea of all the implications), at least for some. But in the end, if the company decides not to address it, for technical of financial reasons, so be it. Yet potential customers will still keep the right to comment about it, and even express regrets.

 

Just my 0.02

 

Hubert

Edited January 29, 2016 by MostlyRacers

[Cees Broere]

Hi Hubert,

My queston to Juggernut was nothing more than that, a question. I was wondering if he was aware of the flattened nose. I wasn't and the majority of modellers weren't too.

Including the research team. After that it became a point of discussion, which is fine by me.

Cees

Edited January 29, 2016 by Cees Broere

[mywifehatesmodels]

When they released the G, I was a little hesitant because of the version they chose and it's limited schemes. About the same time that I was talking myself into getting it anyway, I started to see more builds of the kit and I have to say that the nose was definitely a turn off and made the decision to wait for the F model that much easier. However, if the F model suffers from the same issues in the nose, it's off my list. The lack of a chin turret only amplifies this problem to MY eye and fixing it is far more involved that just sanding a couple spots here and there. Would I go so far as to say that if they didn't change it, then they only care about money and not the subject, their customers, or the hobby? No. However, this isn't an issue that I can only detect if I hold it up against plans. It's something I can very plainly see from just looking at the kit, by itself. I'm in the same boat as Juggernut, having plenty of other subjects to build (too many!). So, as much as I would love to have a B-17 on my shelf, I will pass on it if it means major surgery, or having to live with an obvious (to my eye) shape issue, especially for that kind of money. Still keeping my fingers crossed that this isn't the case with the F model.

 

John

Edited January 29, 2016 by mywifehatesmodels

[Hubert Boillot]

Hi Hubert,

My queston to Juggernut was nothing more than that, a question. I was wondering if he was aware of the flattened nose. I wasn't and the majority of modellers weren't too.

Including the research team. After that it became a point of discussion, which is fine by me.

Cees

 

Fair point Cees. My sincere apologies if you felt I misinterpreted your post.

 

Cheers.

 

Hubert

[petrov27]

Will wait to see the final release to make a choice myself but if it is a known problem with the old kit it is disappointing if they do not address in the new version being released.

[Guest Vulcan32]

Some will buy it, some not.

Some will build it, some not.

Always the same game.

 

I´ve built the "G" and it was fun to build, I had it on display at a model show and the visitors liked it, I think most of them because of the size.

No one started a discussion about the nose shape.

[Lancman]

If I remember right the nose problem was highlighted pretty quickly during the early release of the G version and I was hoping that in the 16 months or so since it's release and highlighted that the problem would have been addressed for the F release, as HK look at the modelling web sites they can't say they were unaware of this as it was a hot tattie on the forums. At the end of the day we have an injection moulded B17 and not the vac which is your other option, it will be easier and quicker to build ( at my rate anyway ) and dare I say it possibly cheaper too in the long run.

 

Graham

[tomprobert]

Looks like the ball turret ammunition cans are gone from the radio room rear bulkhead - at least that'll save a little (albeit simple) surgery.

 

Tom

[Black Sheep One]

Well.... the issue with the circumference of the nose, to me, is not a big deal.

I figured that the problem would be there with the "F" models as well since it would probably require HK to make a new mold to correct this and, as I've been told, making a mold for an injected model costs a lot of money and I don't think HK cares that much to make such an investment.

 

What I do worry about is the PE set for the cockpit.

Does the "F" model has the same IP as the "G" model?

Was the problem with the PE IP from Eduard corrected?

I remember there was a problem with the IP for the "G" off register when it came out.

I just wonder if this was corrected.  Those PE sets aren't cheap!

Edited January 29, 2016 by Black Sheep One

[Bill M.]

First, let me say that I'm getting the kit regardless. I figure it will be my only chance to get and build a 1/32 B-17F. I think it will be a spectacular build.

Secondly, I've been studying every photo I can find of the "flattened" upper nose area, including photos of built H-K B-17G's. A couple of preliminary thoughts. First, I'm beginning to think that instead of doing a lot of sanding, we might want to add material to the edges of the flat area. I'm starting to think that what causes the flat area is that the fuselage swells out slightly on each side going back to where it meets the angle of the windshield or it's a combination of this swelling and a very slight flattening in the center. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?... Or better yet, factory drawings or sections that might show this one way or another?

Bill M.

[Hubert Boillot]

The section drawings I have found show that the upper half is a flattened circle, or a half ellipse, with the small radius roughly 89% of the long one. The lower half is apparently a half circle.

 

Hubert

Edited January 29, 2016 by MostlyRacers

[KOG7777]

It's definitely unfortunate that the error is there, and I CAN see it plainly if I stare at that area, but it's such a small area of the kit (and not an area I really care about) that it doesn't really bother me much. I'd be more upset if the tail shape was wrong, or the turrets were screwed up, or the wings were misshapen, etc....

 

I was curious though, as to whether this flattened area was captured properly in the old 1/48 B-17G kit... and from what I could see in photos online, it looks like they got it right? Or at least more right. Can anyone comment on this?

[mywifehatesmodels]

To me, it's not the flattened area that's the main problem, but that the entire nose around the forward cockpit area looks too big around. Perhaps, because it's not flat where it should be, is why it has this bulbous appearance? I don't know. The nose also appears to be too short from certain angles, but this could be an illusion created by proportional errors located elsewhere. The same can be said for the chin turret. It looks too large to me, but that could also be a proportions issue. From above, the length of the nose looks right. Again, without measuring everything against plans and the real thing, it's hard to say exactly what areas need to be changed. All I know is that it looks really out of place to me, from just about every angle but directly above and one could even argue that it looks a little fat from that angle, as well.

 

John

[tomprobert]

The forward most small window on the nose (in front of the cheek gun) in the G kit is also too large on the starboard side. HK moulded it the same size as the window behind the cheek gun, when in reality it's actually a smaller window. This too can throw the shape of the nose out and adds to the problems of that area.

 

On the F, it seems they've repeated the error, but with the cheek gun arrangement being reversed, this time it's the port forward nose window being too large. The E version CAD model also has all three nose windows the same size - again the real aircraft has a smaller window in the most forward position on both sides of the nose.

 

Also, the F nose bubble looks very much like the modern day warbird currently operated by the Liberty Foundation known as the 'Movie Memphis Belle'. This is a backdated G to look like an F, but doesn't have the nose guns fitted. I can't help but wonder if this airframe was used as a reference for the glass nose?

 

I've built two of these kits and they are wonderful. The nose issue doesn't bother me and I don't think detracts too much from the overall look of the finished model, despite having a real interest and passion in the aircraft. I tend to keep in mind that before the HK kit the only option was either the Combat Models or ID Models vac forms. I've built the Combat kit and I know if given the choice, I'd chose the HK every single time. I'm just pleased that there's an injection moulded 1/32nd B-17.

 

At the end of the day, to use a cliche, 'you pays your money and makes a choice'.

 

Tom

[D.B. Andrus]

Could the nose issue be an opportunity for an enterprising AM fellow to correct? I don't recall if the area fwd of the cockpit is a separate piece or not.

 

Cheers,

 

D.B.