AdamR Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 (edited) Sorry for such a newbie topic. Been discussed to death, I'm sure, but is there a definitive authority on color of paint used and how much of the wing was actually puttied smooth? Was it the top only? I find lots of opinion on the web... http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2005/12/stuff_eng_detail_p51d_02.htm ...but with a P-51 build in my future this year, I'd like to think I have the answers nailed down before I start snipping plastic. Edited February 17, 2017 by AdamR David66 and mpk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_S Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Page 1, about halfway down. http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=40939 David66, LSP_K2, Stinger16 and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Thanks for linking that old thread Bill. I learned much. Jeff, Bill_S and David66 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radub Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 This is possibly one of the most misunderstood and argued point about Mustangs. Jennings produced a drawing (see below) but "forgot" to explain it. You see those faint grey panel lines in his drawing? They are there on the real thing. I saw them, I touched them, they are real and they are there even though the wing was puttied and lacquered. Furthermore, in that drawing, that second panel line inboard from the wingtip should not even be "grey" but rather it should be black in that drawing because it was the separation line of the removable wingtip and also had visible fasteners. So, those models that have ALL panel lines removed from the wings are inaccurate. Believe it or not (and many do not :-)), even though the wings were puttied and lacquered, even the rivets remained faintly visible, although it is debatable how much of that should be visible in scale models. As for the colour of the lacquer, it is a gloss silver paint, very much like the paint you would see on a silver-coloured car. Radu mpk, bigern007, dennismcc and 9 others 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_S Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Thanks for the clarification, Radu! David66 and mpk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Five Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Right. I shall have to arrange to take lots of photographs of Mustang wings. Andrew. David66 and CANicoll 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radub Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Right. I shall have to arrange to take lots of photographs of Mustang wings. Andrew. Please do not post photos you found on the internet. Please post only photos you took. I speak from personal experience. A lot of the "fake news" about the Mustang wings is perpetrated by copy-and-paste drones who never got within 100 yards of a Mustang. Radu alaninaustria, Harold, David66 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peterpools Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Radu Thank you for your input and helping to clarify the Mustang Mystery! I first posted this question on the forum In 2012 when I was building my first Tamiya Mustang - egad, what I thought was good, was pretty bad. Since then, I've built three more Mustangs including re- building my original effort. With each build, I worked more and more on the wing ussue, finally ending up with filling in the rivets but leaving the panel lines as shown. I went from a gloss light gray originally to Tamiya AS-12 Airspeed Silver and that seemed to do the trick. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radub Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 And be aware that very few warbirds have accurately finished wings. You need wartime photos. Ah yes! There it is! The "bad restoration" argument. Jennings, I will trust the word/work of any "crappy restorer" before you. :-) Radu alaninaustria 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Palimaka Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 (edited) I have to agree with Peter. Jennings' drawing is an essential start for a modeller, but the reality of your subject might vary from that a bit. I have hundreds of photos of RCAF Mustangs from the late 1940s and 1950s and Polish Mustangs from the Second Global Unpleasantness. Generally I would say the rivets were mostly invisible ( and as Radu says, in scale model terms pretty much non-existent ) and some of those panel lines that were grey on Jennings drawing did show up, even just as a line of dirt built up by the airflow. The wingtip breaks were certainly the most obvious, with some of the others inboard often seen as well. It comes down to that common piece of advice that if you are striving for absolute accuracy, find photos of your subject if you can. Sometimes that's easier said than done, and in many cases wartime photos were taken from angles that won't give you a clear view of the wing upper surface...they weren't taking them with 21st Century model builders in mind. Sometimes you get lucky. There are photos of RCAF Mustangs from the Air Armament schools where you can see almost every rivet. Although they were well maintained they were worked hard, and I'm guessing there wasn't the time spent looking after the finish, at least not as much as the Auxiliary squadrons did. The Canadian Mustangs were by that time getting toward a decade old but still had predominantly smooth wings. That being said toward the end of their service they were being painted in aluminum lacquer paint which would make things look tidy again. The Canadian service is just a small part of the Mustang story though, and you have to look at your subject and time period. Certainly some USAF F-51s in Korea or ANG Mustangs exhibited what looked like mostly bare wings with rivets and panel lines galore. I would be cautious using any restoration as a rule, no matter how accurate it is supposed to be and there is some absolutely remarkable work being done now, even down to Alclad watermarks on the skins. It's still a restoration, there's nothing difficult to understand...it's not original. Unless you are able to time travel to the 40s and 50s to say you "saw them, touched them" then it's an interesting and valuable observation; but not a historical fact. There are preserved examples which are a better gauge of how they looked. That's not meant as a criticism or an attack, I appreciate your views and input Radu. It's just the way I approach it. It's a messy and puzzling subject, and I'm sure there will be many more arguments devoted to it. I'm no expert, but I do love the Mustang and spent much time researching her. I'm currently working on a 1/24 Mustang, and soon to start a second. I'll use Peter's approach taking a middle road between Radu and Jennings (I'm Canadian after all...trying to keep the peace), smooth wings with the black panel lines on the drawing definitely included, and a couple of the other grey lines, with a small handful of rivets sprinkled in just to p**s people off. Apart from anything else, that huge plank of a 1/24 wing would look awfully boring without anything to break it up. Sorry for the long rant, it probably didn't add much. Richard Edited February 17, 2017 by R Palimaka Bryan, BloorwestSiR, CANicoll and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radub Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Great photos, Richard. I do not have anything to defend and I am not trying to impose my point of view. I invite everyone to ignore me and do their own research. It just breaks my heart to see models mutilated, with all surface detail removed, I mean everything other then the gun access panels, as if the planes had composite wings manufactured by a Formula 1 workshop, and all based on nothing more than just internet echo. I had the opportunity to get really close to a lot of Mustangs. Last time, there were no less than 5 mustangs I saw in one day, including an unrestored plane and I could see all those panel lines on all of them. Rivets are harder to see, but I am talking about the panel lines. Even Jennings placed those lines on his drawing, faintly, but he put them there nevertheless, because deep inside HE KNOWS they MUST be there. Radu David66, R Palimaka, alaninaustria and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alaninaustria Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Gotta luv it! "Fake news ... perpetrated by copy & paste drones..." and "... internet echo..." Funny thing is that the only empty echo I ever really hear in the modelling world seems to have it's origin somewhere in Arizona... possibly from somebody who wears a tinfoil hat!! Cheers Alan David66 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radub Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Gotta luv it! "Fake news ... perpetrated by copy & paste drones..." and "... internet echo..." Alan Ha! You want "fake news?" Don't get me started on planes schmeared in schmutz! What is the next internet fad? Spiderweb cracks in canopies? Flaming bag of poop on the seat? Radu David66 and alaninaustria 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alaninaustria Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Ha! You want "fake news?" Don't get me started on planes schmeared in schmutz! What is the next internet fad? Spiderweb cracks in canopies? Flaming bag of poop on the seat? Radu Well, I guess we could start having bird strike "schmutz" on the wing leading edges, landing gear and cowlings!! I've actually been having a few of these incidents recently - unfortunate for the birds!! Lucky for us the mighty Q400 has relatively mild approach speed and very rubust props, airframe, cowlings, windshield etc... but the "schmutz" still remains!! David66 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bellis Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Never, ever trust a restoration or photos taken post-war. Unless, of course, you're building a model of a restored or post-war airplane. D David66 and R Palimaka 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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