19squadron Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Iain said: I'm sure readers could easily have clicked on the link I provided to see the images - or if you'd posted a link originally. But it's a lovely build, isn't it! If you're arguing that the Hasegawa IIa (that was based on their earlier Vb with retooled wings - and released at one point by Revell, prior to their newly tooled, but poor, 2014 Mk.IIa release) is a better starting point for an early Spit than the Kotare kits, then you've completely lost me I'm afraid. I built several of the Hasegawa IIa kits back in the day - it was a big step forward in the scale for early Spits at the time - that build really isn't straight kit (the wing and fuselage riveting/engraving for a start) - and the Kotare kits are a far better starting point than the Hasegawa kits in my humble opinion. And I'd be surprised if you find the Hasegawa kit (or the Revell release of it) for £20 these days. Blue skies, Iain I wanted to avoid the discussion about the fact that the codes, serial number and pilot are all unrelated which seemed the inevitable result of revealing the title for the model on the LSP library, but since you have posted the above - there is a bit of confusion around the profile, however the point was it is a very nice build from a kit that requires only as much work as the Kotare in my view, but can be found very cheaply. And yes it would be nice to have a modern, accurate, well-researched kit, but the Kotare is not that, it is well behind the efforts of both Eduard and Tamiya. The Hasegawa model EB O P8209 was built from a Hasegawa Spitfire Vb/VI/IIa the plastic is all the same as far as I remember. Edited January 6 by 19squadron addition of pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Mike Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 While the Kotare kit may not be the Tamiya kit(s) standard, Tamiya left a huge gap by not doing any other marks. Kotare has filled those gaps. Eduard does not count, to me as it is 1/48. Stating a 1970s kit is to the standard of the Kotare kit seems a wee extreme. The Hasegawa kit was so far ahead of the game back then? geedubelyer and LSP_Matt 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19squadron Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 1 minute ago, LSP_Mike said: While the Kotare kit may not be the Tamiya kit(s) standard, Tamiya left a huge gap by not doing any other marks. Kotare has filled those gaps. Eduard does not count, to me as it is 1/48. Stating a 1970s kit is to the standard of the Kotare kit seems a wee extreme. The Hasegawa kit was so far ahead of the game back then? I agree about the Tamiya, but I think there is so much correction to do to the Kotare around the wing profile, and the shape of the nose, fabric detail, not to mention cockpit errors and omissions, plus the prop etc etc, that Hasegawa kit above ends up being no more work than achieving a reasonable result than taking on the Kotare, or converting a Tamiya to a Mk I - if your ambition is to do it as well as this Hasegawa model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Mike Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Sounds like a laundry list. Cite specifics please. Start with the cockpit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozart Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 34 minutes ago, 19squadron said: I agree about the Tamiya, but I think there is so much correction to do to the Kotare around the wing profile, and the shape of the nose, fabric detail, not to mention cockpit errors and omissions, plus the prop etc etc, that Hasegawa kit above ends up being no more work than achieving a reasonable result than taking on the Kotare, or converting a Tamiya to a Mk I - if your ambition is to do it as well as this Hasegawa model. MikeMaben, Christa, geedubelyer and 4 others 2 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geedubelyer Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) Thanks for the link Iain and for the attached images Simon. Regardless of our respective thoughts about which kit might reflect an accurate Spitfire I hope most will agree that Arie's model represents the benchmark for how a Spitfire model ought to look. What a beauty! I will be extremely happy if I can get my current build looking a fraction as good as that. Edited January 6 by geedubelyer 19squadron, Johnny Cloud, mozart and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christa Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Hey Mozart! Where did you find that terrific image? mozart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thierry laurent Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Well painted the Hasegawa kit surely LOOKS like an early Spitfire but the list of inaccuracies and omissions is VERY long. Do not forget the same sprues and parts were used to depict the Mk.Ia, Mk.IIa and Mk.Va! No need to say more about accuracy! All kits have deficiencies but if we compare all Revell and Hasegawa 1/32 Spit releases, I'm still considering the new Kotare offer to be far better. It may still ask for some corrections that could have been avoided but globally this is an easier route than trying to improve any of the 1/32 other kits! Ask me how I know... By the way all other kits have far more obvious wings, nose, propeller or cockpit issues. So I think we should now move on... Johnny Cloud, LSP_Matt, Christa and 7 others 7 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Well articulated Thierry - my thoughts exactly. Iain dennismcc, Out2gtcha, Christa and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Mike Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Correct. But, comparing someones heavily modified model to a stock kit is at best, disingenuous, and misleading. I am all for talking through a models inaccuracies or faults, but cite sources, and give credit where due. I have no patience with grinding axes, but rather would attempt to educate and improve the members modelling. Archimedes, LSP_Matt, Christa and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19squadron Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 42 minutes ago, thierry laurent said: Well painted the Hasegawa kit surely LOOKS like an early Spitfire but the list of inaccuracies and omissions is VERY long. Do not forget the same sprues and parts were used to depict the Mk.Ia, Mk.IIa and Mk.Va! No need to say more about accuracy! All kits have deficiencies but if we compare all Revell and Hasegawa 1/32 Spit releases, I'm still considering the new Kotare offer to be far better. It may still ask for some corrections that could have been avoided but globally this is an easier route than trying to improve any of the 1/32 other kits! Ask me how I know... By the way all other kits have far more obvious wings, nose, propeller or cockpit issues. So I think we should now move on... Yes BUT that is the point! The Hasegawa build here, with the work that has gone into it looks like an early Spitfire, and one can only respect the modeling, whereas the Kotare built OOB does not look like a Spitfire with its ugly crude wing profile, and misshapen nose, ugly prop, weird fabric rudder, ailerons and elevators, clumsy, heavy and idiosyncratic riveting, etc etc. If it was £20, or even £40 like the original WNWseaters and didn't claim to be well researched, then it wouldn't merit comment, but it's expensive and the kit authors on here call even out RJ Mitchell on the issue of his perception of his own wing - which is really out of order to my mind. Christa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 And with that, I'm out. Credibility left the conversation some time ago IMHO. I look forward to seeing you produce the ultimate Spitfire Mk.1a from the Hasegawa Mk.VI at some point in the future. All the best, Iain Christa, mozart, Kagemusha and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozart Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 17 minutes ago, Iain said: And with that, I'm out. Credibility left the conversation some time ago IMHO. I look forward to seeing you produce the ultimate Spitfire Mk.1a from the Hasegawa Mk.VI at some point in the future. All the best, Iain That makes at least two of us Iain......FFS!!! Christa, thierry laurent, LSP_Matt and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out2gtcha Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 9 hours ago, 19squadron said: Yes BUT that is the point! The Hasegawa build here, with the work that has gone into it looks like an early Spitfire, and one can only respect the modeling, whereas the Kotare built OOB does not look like a Spitfire with its ugly crude wing profile, and misshapen nose, ugly prop, weird fabric rudder, ailerons and elevators, clumsy, heavy and idiosyncratic riveting, etc etc. If it was £20, or even £40 like the original WNWseaters and didn't claim to be well researched, then it wouldn't merit comment, but it's expensive and the kit authors on here call even out RJ Mitchell on the issue of his perception of his own wing - which is really out of order to my mind. Honestly you are now coming off like you have an axe to grind against those who make the Kotare Spitfire. It's an utterly ridiculous, bordering on idiotic notion to think that anyone on this forum thinks any of the ancient LSP Spitfire models even remotely hold a candle to the Kotare model OOB. Fact. Anyone in the know here other than you is done with this, as at this point trying to say anything to you is like tossing tennis balls at tanks. We ALL get it, you don't like the model. Everyone else here generally does. You have made your point and we are all done here. LSP has no issue with discussing innacuracies in a kit, but most all of us here are in fact tired of you reiterating your opinion; which you have now......over and over We as mods never like having to shut down discussions on a kit, but this thread is heading that way. LSP_Mike, DonH, Shoggz and 9 others 10 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Roberts Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) Yes, the Arie Donker build is beautiful, but please don’t use this as a reference for a Spitfire in ‘the heat of the Battle of Britain’! Edited January 6 by Pete Roberts Christa, Out2gtcha and Iain 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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