1/32 Revell Me 262B-1/U1 Nachtjager

[Thunnus]

3 hours ago, AlanG said:

Loving this build so far. Especially the use of the kit decals. Makes me think just how much i rely on Eduard PE when with just a little effort, i could do better with kit decals.

 

Thanks Alan!  This is the first kit that I've run across that has this combination of finely-printed instrument decals on a clear background with a nicely-molded instrument panel. 

 

Zoukei Mura came close but they put the instruments on a solid color background, which makes it (a) difficult to align and (b) decal film with ink is stiffer and harder to conform than clear film.  And I thought the molding on the kit instrument panel was not fine enough so I opted for the PE alternative on my Ta 152H build.

 

Hasegawa also prints their instrument decals on a solid color background.  And they make the decal option even less viable by providing raised details within each instrument.

 

 

[Guest Vincent]

13 hours ago, Radub said:

Wartime photos of the night-fighter cockpit feature “eyelets” welded on the internal canopy frame, right above the radio set, where the mounting brackets for a device like this could be bolted. Whatever this device was, the factory planned for it.

Radu

The eyelets shows that of course there was a provision for "something" to be installed. My main point is that that something is unlikely to be what we see on post capture pictures and it is safe to not install anything at that position

Edited November 20, 2020 by Vincent

[Radub]

12 minutes ago, Vincent said:

Show me a picture of a plane in LW service with that device and I'll agree. Unfortunatly, all the pictures I have show the very same planes without when in LW service and with it when flown by the british. And as I said, the fact that these devices are plain black rules out a german origin. Did the british reuse the eyelets ? Yes of course

There is no known photo of a 262 night-fighter taken by the Germans before the end of the war. All known photos were taken post-war. There is a photo at the bottom of  page 454 of Vol.3 of the Classic Publications series of books on the 262 taken in June 1945, with the aircraft still wearing German crosses, showing that device. If a wartime photo existed it would only prove what that particular aircraft was like. We already know that this device was not present on all aircraft at all times. Absence does not “prove a negative”. (See Lisa Simpson’s Tiger Rock.)

I still believe it was a Bernhardine printer device. The two links above make a very compelling case. Please read the text in both links. The Bernhardine system consisted of more than just that terminal device hanging under the canopy, it also required some internal equipment (accounted for in original 262 drawings - there are equipment sockets inside the existing aircraft to accommodate it) and some control switches which are clearly present in the cockpit. Also read the references at the  end of each of those pages. The evidence is extremely compelling.

Radu 

[Guest Vincent]

I'm perfectly aware of the FuG120 equipment and its potential installation of Me262. I just don't believe that what we see on the canopy is related to it

 

As far as I know, the pegs on the canopy were provision for the sighting system of the Schräge Musik that was never installed on the few night fighters produced

 

It is however known that the British installed the gunsights for some testing.

 

 

Vincent

Edited November 20, 2020 by Vincent

[Thunnus]

Thanks for the input guys!  Very helpful and interesting information!

 

I haven't had much modeling time the past few days.  The few hours I've spent on the Nachtjager have been spent looking at the cockpit components, referencing both the kit and Eduard PE instructions and trying to get subassemblies together prior to painting and determine which PE parts to use.

For example, I've decided to glue some subassemblies like the pilot side panels together so that I can, at some point, dry-fit the cockpit components together.

 

 

There are PE faces for the seats side frames but I doubt that they will be seen from above so I am planning on not using the PE parts.  I'll make a more informed decision once I know how the seats fit within the cockpit.

 

 

One PE component that I think will be superior to the kit part is the Revi 16 gun sight.  It's no bigger than the size of a matchhead and yet it is made up of six separate parts... should be a fun assembly exercise.

 

 

A PE bending tool is helpful when bending PE, especially if you want to get crisp/straight folds.  I have a couple but The Bug by Small Shops is the one that I end up using most often.

 

 

Once the initial folding is done, the box shape of gun sight is closed into final shape using my fingers and tweezers.

 

 

CA glue along the closed joints seals the box shut.

 

 

I used a small stiff paint brush moistened with Great Planes Pro CA Debonder to "scrub" away the excess CA glue.

 

 

A visual reminder of how small this thing is.

 

 

I thought it would be a good idea to mount the Revi gun sight onto the mounting arm to make it easier to handle and less likely to lose.

 

 

The final bits are added to the gun sight assembly.

 

 

The gun sight is primed with Mr Primer Surfacer 1000.

 

 

Sometimes a mix and match approach will be used.  The kit radar assembly has better raised detail than the flat PE box but the PE frame is a big improvement over the kit part.  So I'll be using the kit radar mounted on the PE frame.

 

 

That's all for now!

[AlanG]

Thunnus. Don't know if you are aware but. From what i remember after watching a Phil Flory vid on YT regarding this build. there is an issue with the cockpit side walls and the rear cockpit bulkhead. Maybe have a look?

[Thunnus]

3 minutes ago, AlanG said:

Thunnus. Don't know if you are aware but. From what i remember after watching a Phil Flory vid on YT regarding this build. there is an issue with the cockpit side walls and the rear cockpit bulkhead. Maybe have a look?

 

Thanks for the heads up Alan!  Since the cockpit is so modular, it is difficult to check fit issues prior to assembly.  Hopefully, I'll get enough sub-assemblies together where I can start double checking the overall fit of the cockpit.  I'll pay particular attention to the sidewalls and rear cockpit bulkhead!

[johnie hopper]

I hope that your nice REVI16 mounting onto the arm is not the final positioned. It should be little bit more backward (closer to pilot).

Also the REVI holder arm should look quite differently.

And the arm definitely shouldn't be bended.

 

Edited November 20, 2020 by johnie hopper
improvement

[Thunnus]

Thanks for checking input Johnnie!  I can definitely pop the gun sight off and re-position it closer to the pilot.

 

Based on some warnings that I received about the cockpit, I focused on a couple of areas today: the rear cockpit side panels and overall fit.

First up were the rear side panels.  LIke the front, the panel faces need to be mounted on the walls.  Looking at the parts after a test fit revealed a simple problem.  In order for the panel to fit the wall, the glue edge of the panel needs a notch, which is absent.  You can see, from underneath, that Revell had probably accounted for this notch but didn't quite follow through.

 

 

A simple and easy fix to cut the notch out since the plastic is very thin anyway.

 

 

I unloaded too much Tamiya Extra Thin onto on starboard panel and will need to let this dry completely before trying to smooth it out.

 

 

Next, I wanted to start checking the overall fit of the major external components and how they relate to the internal parts.  The first test fit is of the major fuselage parts including the cockpit sill and nose cowlings.  With the fuselage sides and cockpit sill taped together, the two nose pieces seem to fit acceptably well.

 

 

The cockpit assembly is meant to glued after the fuselage sides are attached, from the bottom opening.  Since the cockpit is modular and is comprised of multiple bulkheads and internal sub-assemblies attached to those bulkheads, test fitting everything at one time without glue is next to impossible.  So I'm going to do what I can and I'll start out by checking out the largest internal bulkhead, Part C129.

 

As you can see, the outline of this bulkhead features some subtle but noticeable irregularities.

 

 

However, the receiving groove on the inside of the fuselage is smooth. Based on this observation, one might be tempted to sand the edges of C129 to make it fit flush within the appropriate groove.  Don't!

 

 

The bulkhead is held in position using BluTack.  With a light shining behind it, you can see the how the sides of the bulkhead are not flush.

 

 

The bottom center wing part is placed into position.   It does not appear that the fuselage sides are being pushed apart unnaturally by the bulkhead.  Fit looks ok from this perspective.

 

 

Viewing from the outside confirms this assessment.  It looks like the bulkhead is needs no trimming.

 

 

This is not definitive... just one part of the puzzle.  This has me contemplating the need to dry-fit the other internal components.  Maybe attaching parts temporarily with white glue if necessary.

[Radub]

4 hours ago, Thunnus said:

 

 

As you can see, the outline of this bulkhead features some subtle but noticeable irregularities.

 

 

 

However, the receiving groove on the inside of the fuselage is smooth. Based on this observation, one might be tempted to sand the edges of C129 to make it fit flush within the appropriate groove.  Don't!

 

As you may know, I created the CAD artwork for this model. In this photo one can see some faintly-raised elements on the surface of the part, which also protrude a little beyond the edges of the part. The part, as I designed it, did not feature these elements. The only surface detail was the circular raised detail (front end of the cockpit tub) and the reinforcement strips. I have no explanation for the presence of those elements on the surface, these were added by the tool shop that made the mould, for reasons that I cannot understand (they are not structural, they are not decorative...). 

I would remove those "bits" protruding over the edges and I would bevel the edges a bit in order to improve the fit of this part into the grooves on the inside of the fuselage.

HTH

Radu  

[Radub]

Here is more compelling evidence that the device hanging from the canopy frames is the P 120 Peilschriber. 

Radu

[Guest Vincent]

Great job on the PE stuff !

[johnie hopper]

I think you would have to thrust your head into wheel bay area to see a part of front partition/bulkhead and still it wouldn't be seen much because of a mass of pipes, wires cables and devices there.

[Thunnus]

11 hours ago, Radub said:

 

As you may know, I created the CAD artwork for this model. In this photo one can see some faintly-raised elements on the surface of the part, which also protrude a little beyond the edges of the part. The part, as I designed it, did not feature these elements. The only surface detail was the circular raised detail (front end of the cockpit tub) and the reinforcement strips. I have no explanation for the presence of those elements on the surface, these were added by the tool shop that made the mould, for reasons that I cannot understand (they are not structural, they are not decorative...). 

I would remove those "bits" protruding over the edges and I would bevel the edges a bit in order to improve the fit of this part into the grooves on the inside of the fuselage.

HTH

Radu  

 

Yes, I knew that you were involved heavily in the production of this kit, which I think shows in the many wonderful details that I can already see in the early stages of this build.  I noticed those raised tabs on the outside edges of the bulkhead C129 too.  I have no idea what goes into designing/producing a plastic model kit but I am an engineer and I know that are many cases where the actual product does not match the blueprints/plans.  Seeing those tabs and realizing that the fuselage and wing bottom fit with the bulkhead tabs intact leads me to believe that Revell intentionally put those tabs on the part, maybe late in the game, to facilitate a better fit.  Without those tabs or if you remove the tabs and sand the edges of the bulkhead level, you may unintentionally narrow the width of the fuselage which would throw off the fit of the wing bottom part.  So I am leaving the part as is.

[Thunnus]

Thanks guys!  After completing the Shiden Kai, I wanted to jump back onto the Nachtjager but am still hung up on actually starting work on the cockpit.  I started on one plan of cobbling together the major components with friction, tape and white glue but I didn't get far down that road before I broke on the cockpit parts.  That kinda put cold water on that idea.

 

 

Although I would prefer more assembly before painting, I may just have to start painting/finishing and putting the cockpit together one assembly at a time and trust that I can work out any fit issues as they arise.  Probably not a bad route to take... I would actually be following the instructions!

 

 

The Eduard PE foot pedals broke on me so I fished out some Eagle Editions replacements from my spares box.  The gun sight position was adjusted as well.