Hasegawa 109F-4 to F-2 conversion..

[D.B. Andrus]

...would anyone be interested. Since F-2's are as rare as hens teeth, I have the parts to make the conversion set.

 

Please post your yea or nay here.

 

Cheers,

Damian

[oyoy5]

Yea

[MikeMaben]

What are the parts Damian ?  Pics ?

[nmayhew]

very interested from a modelling standpoint but primarily from a technical one

 

i have never *definitively* seen the differences explained between the two variants - i mean done properly including engine specs, propeller specs, and then on to radiator and supercharger cowls, fuel ports etc etc

 

i have lots of books which skirt round the subject because clearly they don't really know either

 

  @D.B. Andrus what are you planning?

 

I would also be interested in the input of perhaps @Vincent who maybe knows?

[Landrotten Highlander]

1 minute ago, nmayhew said:

very interested from a modelling standpoint but primarily from a technical one

 

i have never *definitively* seen the differences explained between the two variants - i mean done properly including engine specs, propeller specs, and then on to radiator and supercharger cowls, fuel ports etc etc

 

i have lots of books which skirt round the subject because clearly they don't really know either

 

  @D.B. Andrus what are you planning?

 

I would also be interested in the input of perhaps @Vincent who maybe knows?

same 'ere.

might be interested if sufficiently explained and detailed.

[oyoy5]

Message sent to your PM but I can’t since it’s kicking back you can’t receive messages.

[D.B. Andrus]

In general, the differences between the F-2 and F-4 consist of smaller air intake for the supercharger, shallow oil cooler(F-4 Trop had deeper oil cooler as well as enlarged air intake); a large part of F-2 production had squared-off wheel openings w/ exceptions; a large number of F-2's retained the clear triangular glazing on the lower right of the windscreen; supplementary external armor glass could be fitted; capability of using 300 ltr. external fuel tank; 4 external tail stiffeners added after several accidents because of tail separation; use of DB 601 engine required 100 octane fuel - C3 fuel triangle.

 

My conversion consists of a small air intake w/ cowling panel; small oil cooler w/ mount and screens; 4 foil external tail stiffeners. Everything else will be provided by F-4 donor kit.  Will post some photos shortly.

 

If more info is needed I can post some photos of pertinent 109's.

 

Cheers,

Damian

[D.B. Andrus]

5 hours ago, oyoy5 said:

Message sent to your PM but I can’t since it’s kicking back you can’t receive messages.

Give it another try.

[LSP_Mike]

Doesn't the F2 use a smaller prop than the F4? Closer to Emil whereas the F4 prop was closer to the G?

[D.B. Andrus]

I knew I forgot something. Thanks for pointing it out, Mike.

 

Yes, the blades of the F-2 are thinner than the F-4 trop in the Hasegawa kits reflecting the originals. The thinner blades will be included in the conversion.

 

Cheers,

Damian

[nmayhew]

Re prop blades, are we not confusing the larger blades of the F-4z, which I thought were same as G-2?

 

Also, I’m interested in whether WNr data is available for the variants, and whether there are factory docs specifying the various changes?

 

given it’s the most famous plane in history, there are lots of holes in the data - something you don’t really find in German armour primarily because of the work of Jentz & Doyle.

 

I don’t think there is any author comparable in German aviation?

[RBrown]

1 hour ago, nmayhew said:

Re prop blades, are we not confusing the larger blades of the F-4z, which I thought were same as G-2?

 

Also, I’m interested in whether WNr data is available for the variants, and whether there are factory docs specifying the various changes?

 

given it’s the most famous plane in history, there are lots of holes in the data - something you don’t really find in German armour primarily because of the work of Jentz & Doyle.

 

I don’t think there is any author comparable in German aviation?

 

F through K versions are covered in Messerschmitt Bf 109 F, G, & K Series: an Illustrated Study, by Jochen Prien and Peter Rodeike.  The book gives production batches by Werk Numer and documents the various changes during production. 

[D.B. Andrus]

 

 

Another is a more recent publication Messerschmitt Bf 109, by Jean-Claude Mermet & Christian-Jacques Ehrengardt; Feb. 2016 - which covers the complete series from A through K.

 

No, the above mentioned books don't have the completeness of the extraordinary Jentz and Doyle publications. However, considering the number of variants produced and the damage that was done to manufacturing and records during the war, I'd say pretty good progress has been made to shine light on a pretty obscure and myth-filled subject.

 

The F-1/2 used the VDM 9-11207A prop - the F-4, in the beginning used the same prop as the F-2. However in Dec, 1941 Erla and Jan 1942 WNF started using the prop that would be used with the G-1 and the VDM 9-12087, as well as the deeper oil cooler housing utilizing the Fo 870 oil cooler. This was combined with GM-1 nitrous oxide injection to produce the F-4Z.

 

So, my conversion will supply the thin prop blades, along with the items mentioned above. This is not yet a done deal, just taking an informal survey.

[Troy Molitor]

For sure.  Yes!   

[nmayhew]

8 hours ago, D.B. Andrus said:

 

 

Another is a more recent publication Messerschmitt Bf 109, by Jean-Claude Mermet & Christian-Jacques Ehrengardt; Feb. 2016 - which covers the complete series from A through K.

 

No, the above mentioned books don't have the completeness of the extraordinary Jentz and Doyle publications. However, considering the number of variants produced and the damage that was done to manufacturing and records during the war, I'd say pretty good progress has been made to shine light on a pretty obscure and myth-filled subject.

 

The F-1/2 used the VDM 9-11207A prop - the F-4, in the beginning used the same prop as the F-2. However in Dec, 1941 Erla and Jan 1942 WNF started using the prop that would be used with the G-1 and the VDM 9-12087, as well as the deeper oil cooler housing utilizing the Fo 870 oil cooler. This was combined with GM-1 nitrous oxide injection to produce the F-4Z.

 

So, my conversion will supply the thin prop blades, along with the items mentioned above. This is not yet a done deal, just taking an informal survey.

 

thank you!

 

the prop info is exactly the sort thing i find interesting

 

definitely interested in a conversion if you do one 

 

slightly dubious of the book you mention given its date of publication - i imagine the info on the Erla Gustavs will be incorrect? I had thought that we only truly sorted out the cowl shapes on those things relatively recently, but maybe i got that bit wrong?