Got my jet back from rehab- The Wave

[Oldbaldguy]

7 hours ago, MikeC said:

Deep breath, and remember: the media is staffed by journalism experts, not aviation experts or anything-else experts.  Once I realised this, it made such reports so much easier to deal with.

Beg to differ.  The current crop of media types are not journalists.  Real journalists left the building decades ago.  Journalism these days is focused not on facts or accuracy but on money, fame and narrative.  I speak not from opinion but face to face experience.  Not wishing to divert Pete’s thread, this is a different topic for another time.

[MikeC]

2 hours ago, Oldbaldguy said:

Beg to differ.  The current crop of media types are not journalists.  Real journalists left the building decades ago.  Journalism these days is focused not on facts or accuracy but on money, fame and narrative.  I speak not from opinion but face to face experience.  Not wishing to divert Pete’s thread, this is a different topic for another time.

Fair enough, I bow to your experience, although the real point I was making was that there's a distinct lack of aviation experience.  I agree that we don't want to divert the thread any more.

[Daywalker]

Have to say, beautifully done! I can't imagine the stress in a situation like that, your skill and professionalism made a potentially disastrous situation into a best possible outcome scenario.  Well done! I would fly with you anytime.

[Pete Fleischmann]

7 hours ago, Daywalker said:

Have to say, beautifully done! I can't imagine the stress in a situation like that, your skill and professionalism made a potentially disastrous situation into a best possible outcome scenario.  Well done! I would fly with you anytime.

Thanks brother-

I had to talk my student in the backseat off the ledge before we landed. I told her a boldfaced lie “don’t worry- I’ve done this before”. That was probably the best decision I made that day, because that calmed her down such that she was an asset rather than a liability.
 

cheers

P

[Daywalker]

I don't know how you even managed to get that aircraft off the runway in the first place with cajones that big in the cockpit. 

[Oldbaldguy]

Probably wouldn’t hurt to take a minute to outline the damage your airplane suffered and to what parts and then give everyone who has never been in this predicament a quick glimpse into the recovery process at the runway and the goat rope of returning it to flying status.  Telling yer backseater that you land gear-up all the time was sheer genius.

[alaninaustria]

 

Pete, I had a peek at the video - what an excellent execution of airmanship and professionalism! 

Awesome job!

Cheers

Alan

[Pete Fleischmann]

Hey all-

this is my good buddy, fellow A320 captain at my airline, L-39 owner and MiG-23 owner Dan Filer. Dan is one of the most awesome humans I know. Former A-6 driver and combat vet. This is one of 12 MiG-23’s he owns..you read that right. 12.

Flogger flight

 

cheers

P

[Stokey Pete]

That is just too freakin’ cool! Oh to own just one Flogger, let alone 12 of ‘em. 

[jenshb]

Twelve Floggers?  If I'd suggested back in the 80s that someone in the US would operate a small Air Force of Floggers, I'd be locked up in a padded cell for life:)  What's his take on the MiG-23?  I understand it has tremendous acceleration, but it seems to be a much talked down aircraft type. 

[Pete Fleischmann]

42 minutes ago, jenshb said:

Twelve Floggers?  If I'd suggested back in the 80s that someone in the US would operate a small Air Force of Floggers, I'd be locked up in a padded cell for life:)  What's his take on the MiG-23?  I understand it has tremendous acceleration, but it seems to be a much talked down aircraft type. 

As a privately owned jet, it’s pretty cool. Always draws a crowd! AB takeoffs and drag chute on landing. Very cool. Very high fuel burn and a lot of support equipment required. Dan got some training from a few former USAF Red Eagles, who probably flew the Flogger better than any Soviet pilot.

As a fighter however, it is severely hampered by a horrible turn rate/radius, terrible visibility, and an equally bad radar. If I had to fight this guy he’d likely die pre-merge; but if he was stupid enough to turn with me I’d take him one-circle for sure. Having said all of that, you have to have some respect for the missiles he carries. The AA-8 is an especially nasty round.

 

cheers

P

[Juggernut]

I just looked up the corner velocity of a MiG-23 and it's relatively high (430 kts) compared to an F-16 which, based on G loading can be anywhere from 330-440 KCAS (subject to internet source accuracy of course).  If those numbers are accurate, I'd imagine you'd out maneuver Ivan pretty quickly, as you said. 

 

As an aside, the F-15C has a corner speed of 440-550 kts.  That just seems horrible but if the DCS flight models are correct, that would explain why I always lose a 4 v 1 fight with a flight of MiG-23's when flying the F-15C.  Apparently my ECM and Jamming are pretty good cause I can usually defeat their radar R-23 Apex missiles and get at least two BVR (AIM-120B/C under 11 miles) and one more with an M winder (at around 5-6 miles) but in a turn fight, I lose energy too quickly and the MiG eats my lunch...every. damn. time (even when I remember to punch off the external gas tanks).  Pisses me right off....  I then go into the game settings and make all four Ivan's beginners and guess what,  I still end up a smokin hole...LOL sometimes from his guns, sometimes from those damned Apids.  My energy management skills must not be up to snuff.  I should be able to beat him.   Good thing this is just a game.... Maybe I'll try it with an F-16C and see how I do. 

 

Back on topic....  I can't even imagine the cost of a fuel stop for a MiG-23 and what it burns with the burner lit.  Gotta be a hefty sum.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Juggernut

[Juggernut]

Damned, replied to my own post rather than edit the original...I'm goin back to bed and forget this day.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Juggernut

[LSP_Ron]

How does he fund all this Pete? owning, storing, fuel, insurance, support equipment, maintenance, annual's etc would cost a kings ransom just for one let alone 12

[Pete Fleischmann]

6 hours ago, Juggernut said:

I just looked up the corner velocity of a MiG-23 and it's relatively high (430 kts) compared to an F-16 which, based on G loading can be anywhere from 330-440 KCAS (subject to internet source accuracy of course).  If those numbers are accurate, I'd imagine you'd out maneuver Ivan pretty quickly, as you said. 

 

As an aside, the F-15C has a corner speed of 440-550 kts.  That just seems horrible but if the DCS flight models are correct, that would explain why I always lose a 4 v 1 fight with a flight of MiG-23's when flying the F-15C.  Apparently my ECM and Jamming are pretty good cause I can usually defeat their radar R-23 Apex missiles and get at least two BVR (AIM-120B/C under 11 miles) and one more with an M winder (at around 5-6 miles) but in a turn fight, I lose energy too quickly and the MiG eats my lunch...every. damn. time (even when I remember to punch off the external gas tanks).  Pisses me right off....  I then go into the game settings and make all four Ivan's beginners and guess what,  I still end up a smokin hole...LOL sometimes from his guns, sometimes from those damned Apids.  My energy management skills must not be up to snuff.  I should be able to beat him.   Good thing this is just a game.... Maybe I'll try it with an F-16C and see how I do. 

 

Back on topic....  I can't even imagine the cost of a fuel stop for a MiG-23 and what it burns with the burner lit.  Gotta be a hefty sum.

You are correct about the F-16 corner velocity: 330-440.

Corner velocity is that speed where you generate the greatest turn rate and smallest turn diameter. If two different fighters are at their respective corner velocity, the one who can turn at more degrees per second should win. For example, I can out-rate a Hornet all day in my F-16 at corner, even if the Hornet is doing everything right, because I can generate more degrees per second at F-16 corner velocity than a co-airspeed Hornet can. A good Hornet pilot will try to drive me below F-16 corner velocity, where the Hornet has a distinct rate advantage. (There are also pitch rate limiter advantages that the Hornet has when slow..ie dont get slow with a Hornet- he’ll kill you)

I agree- you should be able to out-rate a Flogger in an Eagle at corner..I don’t even need to see the respective Ps diagram to know this. Yes, perhaps your energy management is lacking

cheers

P