1/32 ZM Henschel Hs-129 B-2......FINISHED

[Troy Molitor]

Agreed.  Really nice work going on here.  Thanks for sharing this journey with us.  

 

Troy 

[monthebiff]

On 12/6/2019 at 1:22 PM, Uncarina said:

Andy,

 

I like it! You are bringing the cockpit to life. Will you be adding straps to the rudder pedals? Not that you would see them anyway...

 

Cheers,  Tom

 

Hi Tom,

 

I will definitely be adding straps to the rudder pedals, I'm planning on using off cuts from the HGW belt set I'm going to be using.

 

Regards.Andy 

 

 

[monthebiff]

Have the first armoured side panel pretty well finished after playing with the Uschi van der Rosten decals to try and simulate the leather covering.

 

 

Pretty happy with the results and will continue with the other panel now.

 

Regards. Andy 

 

[Uncarina]

Andy,

 

I am learning a lot here—such as the leather sections which I didn’t know existed! Thanks for showing the way.

 

Cheers,  Tom

[chrish]

Nicely done

[Troy Molitor]

Great work going on here Andy.  

 

I have a picture of myself sitting in the only surviving cockpit section of a Hs 129 from the mid 80’s. I must have been 20!   (Yikes 37 years later).   The cockpit section was held in an obscure little Museum in Northern IL, USA called Victory Air Museum.   I believe the cockpit section was eventually sold to someone in Australia?  

 

The entire cockpit I certainly recall was all in RLM 66.  The armor panel behind the seat was hinged backward to allow easy access for the pilot.  I’m 6’2” and the “pit” formed around you like a formula one car.  A complete armored tub surrounded you.  

 

You have me curious to know,  did the earlier versions have a mixture of RLM 02 and 66 used?  Is this what ZM is recommending?   Just curious/ interested to know and not into sparking any debate here.  The two tone cockpit is refreshing to see in combination.  

 

Love all your efforts you are putting into your build and really love this kit.   Thanks again for showing your journey with us.  

 

Troy 

[Radub]

The cockpit section is indeed in Australia. The current owner would like to keep the location private for the time-being. 

I know that in the photos of the cockpit restoration one can see that the cockpit walls were lined with leather. I have not come across such specification in any documentation, but it makes sense to insulate the pilot from the steel walls - steel is more efficient at "storing" temperature than aluminium (that is why radiators are made of Al) , which may make insulation important in the heat of the desert or the cold of the winter. All photos of the cockpit in service shows a uniform dark colour, but then again the cockpit is so dark anyway. It is hard to say whether that leather remained unpainted.

The ZM instructions call for RLM 66 for all areas that the pilot can see (basically the whole inside of the cockpit) and RLM 02 for the space between the cockpit tub and fuselage. The cockpit tub is attached to the fuselage by "mounts" similar to engine mounts (included in the kit) and that creates a large open space between cockpit and fuselage. 

Radu

[monthebiff]

2 hours ago, Troy Molitor said:

Great work going on here Andy.  

 

I have a picture of myself sitting in the only surviving cockpit section of a Hs 129 from the mid 80’s. I must have been 20!   (Yikes 37 years later).   The cockpit section was held in an obscure little Museum in Northern IL, USA called Victory Air Museum.   I believe the cockpit section was eventually sold to someone in Australia?  

 

The entire cockpit I certainly recall was all in RLM 66.  The armor panel behind the seat was hinged backward to allow easy access for the pilot.  I’m 6’2” and the “pit” formed around you like a formula one car.  A complete armored tub surrounded you.  

 

You have me curious to know,  did the earlier versions have a mixture of RLM 02 and 66 used?  Is this what ZM is recommending?   Just curious/ interested to know and not into sparking any debate here.  The two tone cockpit is refreshing to see in combination.  

 

Love all your efforts you are putting into your build and really love this kit.   Thanks again for showing your journey with us.  

 

Troy 

Thanks for your comments Troy, ZM call out RLM 66 in the cockpit and RLM 02 behind and in the rear bulkhead area  it's pretty difficult to tell from pictures but looking at the way the cockpit tub was mounted I am going for RLM 66 cockpit and RLM 02 rear bulkhead area. Here is where I am at on the cockpit at the moment.

 

 

 Need to find a bit more info on the hinged part of the pilots rear armour as looking at pictures there seems to be some sort of bracing rods attached between the hinged section and the rear bulkhead?

 

Regards. Andy 

 

[monthebiff]

1 hour ago, Radub said:

The cockpit section is indeed in Australia. The current owner would like to keep the location private for the time-being. 

I know that in the photos of the cockpit restoration one can see that the cockpit walls were lined with leather. I have not come across such specification in any documentation, but it makes sense to insulate the pilot from the steel walls - steel is more efficient at "storing" temperature than aluminium (that is why radiators are made of Al) , which may make insulation important in the heat of the desert or the cold of the winter. All photos of the cockpit in service shows a uniform dark colour, but then again the cockpit is so dark anyway. It is hard to say whether that leather remained unpainted.

The ZM instructions call for RLM 66 for all areas that the pilot can see (basically the whole inside of the cockpit) and RLM 02 for the space between the cockpit tub and fuselage. The cockpit tub is attached to the fuselage by "mounts" similar to engine mounts (included in the kit) and that creates a large open space between cockpit and fuselage. 

Radu

 

Hi Radu, thanks for dropping in and commenting, I've seen several different cockpit shots showing both RL 66 and also unpainted leather on the armoured side walls. After some thought I decided to go along this route 

 

 

As you can see there is a clear distinction between the painted areas and the leather panels attached. 

 

Regards. Andy 

[Dany Boy]

So attractive model, and very interesting modeling process

[Radub]

2 hours ago, monthebiff said:

 it's pretty difficult to tell from pictures but looking at the way the cockpit tub was mounted 

 

Just follow the kit instructions, everything you need is included in the kit. The whole cockpit mounting system is shown in Arthur Bentley's drawings 

 

Quote

 Need to find a bit more info on the hinged part of the pilots rear armour as looking at pictures there seems to be some sort of bracing rods attached between the hinged section and the rear bulkhead?

 

 

 

 

There are no "rods" at the back. The large head armour piece is hinged and folds back. There are two steel cables between the fuselage bulkhead and the head armour. The purpose of these cables is to prevent the headrest from going forward in a crash. The seatbelts are also attached to the fuselage bulkhead, then they pass through the slots in the head rest. So, in this famous photo you see the cables at the top and seatbelts at the bottom.

 

Hth,

Radu

Edited December 8, 2019 by Radub

[Troy Molitor]

interesting.  The cockpit section instrumentation I had a good imaginary flight in was well liberated at the time, I Remember that much.  

 

The lighter color canvas or leather is really interesting.  The amour back seat was really heavy I recall pulling up.  The rudder pedals were  all in magnesium with out any RLM 66 paint.   Memory is not the best after so many years.   I flew Uh-1H, OH -58 and AH-1 in a US Army Guard and I can’t tell you what color the interiors were.   I’m thinking some Interior grey?   Can’t recall if I wasn’t interested at the time.  

 

 I need to dig out the picture of me sitting in this cockpit section when I return to the states.   

 

Thanks for the replies gents.  

[monthebiff]

On 12/8/2019 at 12:59 PM, Radub said:

 

Just follow the kit instructions, everything you need is included in the kit. The whole cockpit mounting system is shown in Arthur Bentley's drawings 

 

 

Hth,

Radu

Just read your post Radu and felt the need to go have another look at the instructions, Hmmm.......as I thought and everything I need is not in the kit as you have stated. I have mentioned previously a couple of times in my thread that  no seat belts are supplied so I need to go for some AM for this as well as the bracing detail needs scratching. ZM are well capable of supplying very finely moulded detail so I dont understand why they missed the armour bracing and as for the seat belts I'm just not sure?? As part of the design group as you mentioned you where could you explain the complete lack of any attempt to supply the pilots seat belts as well as the bracing for the hinged armour plate which I find and I bet any other modeller building this kit very disappointing considering every other detail which you wont see is supplied on the kit. Surely the cockpit of any LSP is a focal point and with the photographic evidence I really dont get what ZM are doing with this one. Pretty disappointed but easy to add the missing details. 

 

And just to caviat, I am just making observations from your comments as I am building the kit and what a lovely kit it is, but with a few very disappointing omissions which for me personally are very poor considering the crazy detail ZM like to go to but in the wrong places it would seem on this one.

 

Thanks for sharing that great picture , how on earth the pilot got in and out is anyone's guess?

 

Regards Andy 

[Dave Williams]

I’m looking forward to the kit getting released in the US, but I’m a little surprised that there are no seat belts.  IIRC, in their other 1/32 kits they usually have two seats, one with belts molded in, and the other without belts for those who prefer aftermarket.

[Radub]

9 hours ago, monthebiff said:

Just read your post Radu and felt the need to go have another look at the instructions, Hmmm.......as I thought and everything I need is not in the kit as you have stated. I have mentioned previously a couple of times in my thread that  no seat belts are supplied so I need to go for some AM for this as well as the bracing detail needs scratching. ZM are well capable of supplying very finely moulded detail so I dont understand why they missed the armour bracing and as for the seat belts I'm just not sure?? As part of the design group as you mentioned you where could you explain the complete lack of any attempt to supply the pilots seat belts as well as the bracing for the hinged armour plate which I find and I bet any other modeller building this kit very disappointing considering every other detail which you wont see is supplied on the kit. Surely the cockpit of any LSP is a focal point and with the photographic evidence I really dont get what ZM are doing with this one. Pretty disappointed but easy to add the missing details. 

 

And just to caviat, I am just making observations from your comments as I am building the kit and what a lovely kit it is, but with a few very disappointing omissions which for me personally are very poor considering the crazy detail ZM like to go to but in the wrong places it would seem on this one.

 

Thanks for sharing that great picture , how on earth the pilot got in and out is anyone's guess?

 

Regards Andy 

 

When you say that "bracing is missing" what do you mean? There is no "bracing". As I explained, the large back armour piece swings back. It has a "hinge" at the bottom which attaches to the cockpit rear/lower bulkhead. This hinge is included in the kit and that allows you to pose the large back armour in either "swung forward/closed" or "swung back/open" positions. On the real aicraft, when swung forward, the back armour is locked in place by two large latches (on the side walls in the kit) and in order to release this armour the pilot or ground crew pushes the lever at the back/right of the back armour. That is all! No "bracing", no "props". As I explaned, the items at the top in the photo are just cables. Their purpose is to prevend the back armour from crushing the pilot in a crash. The attachment brackets for these cables/wires are moulded into the kit part. You just need to add thes cables - just use regular stitching/mending twine painted silver. 

 

As for the seatbelts... What I am about to say here is just my own personal guess, not an "official statement " from ZM.  ZM never included photo-etched parts in any of their kits. In the past, for the seatbelts they provided two seats, one plain seat and one seat with seatbelts moulded in place. Because of the very complex design of the Henschel three-part seat on the real thing (fully depicted in the kit) it is impossible to make the seat with "moulded-on seatbelts". And then, we are left with the bigger problem that the back armour is "posable" either "open' or "closed" in the kit and that the seatbelt straps have to pass through the slots in this "posable" headrest, the kit would need to supply "stetched" (closed back armour) and "slack" (open back armour) pairs of straps for the space between the back rest and the fuselage bulkhead. A separate pair of  "stretched" and "slack" straps will then need to be provided for the actual seat. That would mean a total of eight different parts, which (because ZM do not use PE) would need to be made in plastic, which would add to the production costs and in turn increase the price you pay. All that "heartache" can be solved with a 6-euro set of seat belts.

Hth,

Radu

 

Later addition:
The seat of the Henschel is not the "usual" kind of seat and it operated in a very unique way. Maybe that is why you believe that there have to be some kind of "braces" missing. Please let me know what references you have and I I will tell you where are the relevant photos you need to see. 
I recommend that you get this book: http://www.radubstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=118&products_id=761&zenid=1e2a9935021554ac6feadd98fec0a521 
This book contains photos that were never published before.
On page 68 there is a very large and clear photo of the back armour "locked/swung forward" showing the back of the seat, the cables and the seatbelts, as described above.

On pages 36, 38, 58, 77, 78, 80 you can see photos of the back rest "open/swung back". You will see what I mean about the problem with the multi-pose seatbelts. :-) 
 

Edited December 10, 2019 by Radub