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D.B. Andrus

Late War RLM usage of 81/82, etc.

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On 1/20/2019 at 6:49 PM, John1 said:

Thanks for this info on that aircraft.   Think that landing gear cover is the also light blue green (sans the overspray)?   Do you think there is any chance the fuselage is NMF with a light overspray?   It just seems to have a sheen to it.  

 

On my monitor it comes across a clean blue/gray.

 

Can't buy NMF on fuselage. RLM paints tended have a sheen (depending on manner of application and/or how much flattening agent was added by the manufacturer) to them when fresh. There also was a topical wax product applied to paint  that would protect and retain the flat appearance of the paint. Instructions were to coat the paint, lightly rub, but not too much or it would gloss up and defeat the purpose of the non-reflective surface.* Obviously, these instructions were often disregarded.

 

Luftwaffe Colours 1935-1945 by Michael Ullmann; Hikoki Publications; 2008; pp. 252-256.

 

HTH,

 

D.B.

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Very interesting topic gentlemen. I will try to get in touch with our member  Pufo (Tomas), he's highly knowledgeable regarding evolution of LW colour. Until then here is a picture to stir the pot. :)

Lover fuselage has this  semi-circular dark shade segment. It is also visible on many pictures of Fw-190D-11

 

file.php?id=1308575

 

If I can suggest an idea?

 

a big and often overseen role played layering.  Basically it boils down to how thick was the paint , therefore the difference in shade/tone and  it's resistance to elements , UV radiation etc.

 file.php?id=1250703&t=1

Edited by Martinnfb

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Going back to the previous page on Gelb “8”.  The fabric skin looks to be completely torn off on the port side of the rudder.   I think we’re seeing a light primer or the natural metal rudder frame maybe?   Even the aileron on that side has damage to it.    

Just my guess.  

 

Nice pictures above.  Thanks for sharing.  

 

Troy 

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It was touched on about a week ago, but no comment on the contention in the Merrick book that RLM 81/82/83 were simply reissues of pre-war RLM 61/62/64?

 

Also regarding the Do335, it’s been supposed in the Classic book that most of them were painted 70/71/65 simply because Dornier was a bomber manufacturer and had large supplies of those paints on hand to use up.  As the Do335 was their only fighter, and production was limited, there was little reason for them to go out and get the “correct” paints.

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3 hours ago, Dave Williams said:

It was touched on about a week ago, but no comment on the contention in the Merrick book that RLM 81/82/83 were simply reissues of pre-war RLM 61/62/64?

 

Also regarding the Do335, it’s been supposed in the Classic book that most of them were painted 70/71/65 simply because Dornier was a bomber manufacturer and had large supplies of those paints on hand to use up.  As the Do335 was their only fighter, and production was limited, there was little reason for them to go out and get the “correct” paints.

 

Although there is a superficial resemblance between RLM 61 and 81 there is no real evidence for for the notion that the late war greens are the same as the early colors.  There is  substantial, but not conclusive, evidence that RLM 83 is blue, and this is irreconcilable with notion there is a relationship between the early and late colors.

 

While it is almost certain that the earliest examples of the Do 335 were painted in the RLM 70/71 combination there is also photographic evidence of RLM 81/ 82 use on the Do 335...

 

32957132158_b8357ef875_o.png

 

Edited by RBrown

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Is that an authentic color pic?  Something about it just looks a bit "off".   If so, I suppose that's a great illustration of 81/82. 

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3 hours ago, Troy Molitor said:

Well done Rob.   Nice picture of three different greens there including the black green spinner /prop and the 81 & 82 combination.  The size comparison to that of He-111 is also amazing behind the Do-335.   

 

That was exactly my thought too there Troy - the black/green prop and spinner really contrasts with the other colours on the Do335 in the picture. Also with the He111s in the background, which can reasonably be assumed to be painted in the older greens.

 

In addition, the under surfaces are very pale; too much in my view to be 65, so a little more evidence for 76/81/82 on this airframe.  

Edited by Padraic Conway

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I’m still checking in on that last picture sent in by RBrown.   I know I have a few reference pictures to follow up on this great topic somewhere but those 81/82 color combinations really pop out at you.   There was a Bf 109K-4 color picture of “Gigi” Weiss “8” that was pretty spectacular I recall recently.  

 

Good topic for discussion.  

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15 hours ago, D.B. Andrus said:

White 8

A_zpssk0foggv.jpg

 

Bf%20109K-4%20White%208_zpsho8zxlsh.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lovely picture! And just exactly what colours are these??

A possible take (but just that, possible...)

 

Buff/light brown/cream undersurfaces

Very faded 81 Braunviolett under the cockpit with the Gigi name on

Is that another Brown shade behind the cockpit? Or a faded dark green (allowing for some colour shift within the print which seems to have happened over the years - )?

Cowling? 81 behind the spinner but some darker green behind this and in front of the cockpit. Could even be RLM66 black/grey when compared to the canopy framework...

Tail has dark green spots on a grey? background with apparently blue/white 76 underneath

 

Your take may vary. Mine probably will the next time I look at this picture! :o

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