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D.B. Andrus

Late War RLM usage of 81/82, etc.

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There's a book the smithsonian put out or someone did with a shot of the nose and badge on that 163 witch was I way better shape then it is now. Paint wise. If I remember right getting old theses days 

Edited by rigor

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27 minutes ago, LSP_Ron said:

I don't think one would learn much from the paint on it

 

That's for sure. Without a complete restoration ala the 262, FW 190F, etc. visually separating the original paint from the post war 'exhibition' paint from what's there now is extremely difficult. Once the restoration happens what's left is only the museum's educated approach to the a/c's original scheme. 

 

It's like they didn't have future modelers in mind at the end of the war!  How dare they! ;)

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Well, not to be contrary or anything, but any of these machines that have been painted over rather than stripped and 'restored' are still very valuable because the original paint is still there. The layers can be sanded down through and notes made of the paint layers. Two examples come to mind, the AWM have done an 'excavation by sanding' on the Me 262, black X and most remarkably, the Fleet Air Arm museum at Yeovilton (not a million miles from me) have sanded a FAA Corsair back down to its original markings.. I mean it isn't pristine, but it is the original finish.

 

That's why I believe anything now left with original paint underneath more recent additions should be either left as is or taken back to its original finish (as far as is practicable (NASM Ta 152H would be a candidate, while the Horten is, I believe in need of serious attention to the actual fabric of the aircraft [plywood delaminating]).

 

Lovely 163 images Andreas....

 

Matt

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4 hours ago, mattlow said:

[...] 'Point Cooke' (is that the Australian War Memorial?) [...]

 

No, the AWM is in Canberra, whereas Point Cook is an outlying suburb of Melbourne, probably a half-hour drive from where I live. Point Cook is where the RAAF Museum is based.

 

Kev

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1 minute ago, LSP_Kevin said:

No, the AWM is in Canberra, whereas Point Cook is an outlying suburb of Melbourne, probably a half-hour drive from where I live. Point Cook is where the RAAF Museum is based.

 

Thanks for the clarification Kev...

 

Matt

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1 hour ago, mattlow said:

Well, not to be contrary or anything, but any of these machines that have been painted over rather than stripped and 'restored' are still very valuable because the original paint is still there. The layers can be sanded down through and notes made of the paint layers. Two examples come to mind, the AWM have done an 'excavation by sanding' on the Me 262, black X and most remarkably, the Fleet Air Arm museum at Yeovilton (not a million miles from me) have sanded a FAA Corsair back down to its original markings.. I mean it isn't pristine, but it is the original finish.

 

Matt

In my own imprecise way I was trying to make the point that the finishes are not original, not that they weren't useful. We are 100% on the same page. Thank you for your contributions to the thread. Fascinating subject, isn't it?

 

Cheers,

 

D.B.

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FE-500 was overpainted and on the picture posted by Ron you can see sanding of the surface, probably in attempt to deal with it's delamination 

 

The operational history of the National Air and Space Museum's Me 163 B-1a, Werk-Nummer (serial number) 191301, remains obscure. One of five Me 163s brought to the United States after the war, it arrived at Freeman Field, Indiana, during the summer of 1945. There it received the foreign equipment code FE-500. On April 12, 1946, it was flown aboard a cargo aircraft to the U.S. Army Air Forces facility at Muroc dry lake in California for flight testing. Testing began there on May 3, 1946 in the presence of Dr. Alexander Lippisch and involved towing the unfueled Komet behind a B-29 to an altitude of 9,000 to 10,500 m (30,000 to 35,000 ft) before it was released for a glide back to earth under the control of test pilot Major Gus Lundquist. Powered tests were planned, but not carried out after delamination of the aircraft's wooden wings was discovered. It was then stored at Norton AFB, California until 1954, when it was transferred to the Smithsonian Institution. The aircraft remained on display in an unrestored condition at the museum's Paul E. Garber Restoration and Storage Facility in Suitland, Maryland, until 1996, when it was lent to the Mighty Eighth Air Force Heritage Museum in Savannah, Georgia. It is currently displayed at the Museum's Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center in Chantilly, VA.

 

 

Edited by Martinnfb

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And courtesy of the San Diego Air & Space Museum...... here she is before re-painting...

 

Lovely quality colour photo... Part of a set with some other tasty Luftwaffe, IJAF and US types...

 

 

8663876980_fc5f72b45f_o.jpgMesserschmitt Me163A, 191301, Wright Field, 1946 victory display 003920015 by SDASM Archives, on Flickr

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On ‎1‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 5:15 PM, rigor said:

Martin. Matt great pics. You guys notice the up camo on the beast behind the 163 oh an great link Matt 

 

That's the Ju290 'Alles Kaputt' flown across the North Atlantic by Col Watson. Sadly I'm pretty sure that she had been repainted by the time this picture was taken.

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Have you ever noticed the mottling sprayed back in the mid forties seems impossible to replicate today?   Martins pictures represent this well.  I haven’t seen a good example yet on any recent Bf -109 restoration that can replicate this low pressure mottling method.  

 

Commenting on mattlow examples of colors found under the multiple post war layers of paint.     A prime example of what the colors were in fact back in the 40’s is fantastic to read about.  Examples being the F4f wildcat in the U.K  the bird cage F4U from Lake Michigan, the He-162 in France and the Aussie birds mentioned above.  

 

Does anyone remember the FW-190 D-9 pulled from Lake Schwerin in November 1990?   The color pictures can be found on the Berlin museum web site on the actual date of the recovery.  The notable late war RLM 76 in the duck egg blue.   The RLM 82 on the forward fuselage and the black white spiral spinner.  Same black and white RVD bands for the JG-26.  I can’t believe its been almost 29-30 years and this aircraft has never been finished.  I also want to cringe at the thought of someone trying to paint this aircraft to represent what it actually looked like when recovered.   The FW 190 D-13 comes to mind here!   Post war paint schemes never really seem to represent a period mid forties painted aircraft.  I certainly hope this particular aircraft is finally finished and put on display.   The world could always use another Dora on display!   

 

Troy. 

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