Royboy Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 I really, really, wanted a BOB Spitty! I really hoped that the Revell Spitty would come up with all of the goods, but after reading all of this additional information by Simon and Edgar I'm not sure any model would be 'accurate' if it came onto the market. Holy smokes, depot repairs /emergency damage control in the field? I think the cat is well and truly amongst the pigeons on this one! I'll take a quick lie down, open a beer and ponder the meaning of life again, it'd be much easier I'm quite certain of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thierry laurent Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 I'm puzzled!!!! Anybody who did a little bit of research about the early Spits knows this indeed a minefield-like topic. The same thing may be said for the early Me 109s with Jumo engines. Even without considering the field repairs implied by the combat conditions, such early marks evolved so quickly that keeping track of all the features combinations is indeed a nightmare... However, to my eyes, this is not the main reason explaining the lack of kits of such versions. Otherwise, we would have the same situation in 1/48th and a quick market survey shows this is not the case! A reasonably accurate kit may be done. Inevitably, some discussions would emerge regarding the relevance of this or that but globally this is the case for any kit. So, the reason is probably different. Thierry Derek B and LSP_Matt 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpiccec2010 Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Hi guys. I've been reading posts on this new Spit on here and other sites for a while though never felt it was needed to put in my 2 pennith til now. I've decided to buy one for all the reasons good & bad which have been outlined in the posts. But no one has picked up on one really important thing........ ok you may not be able to make a BoB Mklla without mods, you can prob make something even better! I bet you've all looked at P7350 at Duxford or other airshows n took loads of pics & thought WOW! I'd love one of these. Well from what Edgar and Co. have said it is now more than likely poss to build her. And to me that is a huge benefit if you want to make it accurate to how she is now. Ok, it might not make everyone happy, though I'm sure this idea could open up some ideas to make some great replicas of this very important aircraft which we still have flying. Oh and Mr Hannant..... if you're reading, how about some decals of the markings she has worn? From BoB film to present day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_K2 Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 (edited) New cooler matrices were not readily available from Serck until May, 1942... Surely you meant 1941? The Mk.II isn't really a BoB Spitfire... Not in the "classic" sense, perhaps, but technically it certainly is. The Mk.II first started coming to squadrons by mid August (611 Sqn) with three more squadrons getting them in Sept (two early, one late). NOTE: all discussion here is of Mk.IIa, ignoring any cannon-armed Spitfires. The fundamental problem is that externally there is very little difference between an operational service Mk.I and Mk.II, and this kit doesn't do it, quite apart from any shape/style issues. I haven't got an example yet, though- pre-ordered, and somewhat patiently waiting! Someone mentioned noticeable cockpit differences, and that's an area I really haven't devoted much attention to. Someone who really cares about cockpits will either scratch or replace the kit's anyway, so that can be dealt with as necessary. (I won't be installing any, let alone a red, crowbar, however...) Both had the same oil cooler housing, though whether the internals were the same I don't know for certain. NOT the type in the kit. This detail has been very poorly served in 1/32, and there is already MDC's correction, with more coming. Both had fabric-covered ailerons. Kit gives metal-skinned ones. Off the top of my head, "significant" differences between Mk.I (BoB standard) and Mk.II: Mk.II typically used a Rotol with "hemispheric" shaped spinner (some late production used same DH prop/spinner as Mk.I, but that's 1941) - the kit's prop is either DH or modern (I'll have to compare when I get it) and spinner is DH. Mk.II has "little bump" on starboard cowl for Coffman starter, absent on Mk.I. Don't know offhand whether kit gives it. Mk.I has a hole in "middle-ish" starboard cowl for hand turning gear, no hole on Mk.II. Mk.I also has a small hatch lower starboard for external starter cart, absent on Mk.II (no electric start). Not sure where you load the Coffman- is there another hatch? One other thing I should mention: the fuselage roundel was typically in a somewhat different location on Castle Bromwich Spits (Mk.II) versus Supermarine ones (Mk.I), so be cautious if relying on decal placement diagrams alone! (Westland also built 50 Mk.Is, but not until 1941. They all have AR___ serials.) I'm probably forgetting something embarrassingly obvious... Basically, the Mk.II was the same airframe, but adapted to use Merlin XII engine. The coolant radiator was different, being a pressure system vs. the Mk.I (Merlin III's) non-pressurized circuit, but they used the same fairing. As mentioned, the Merlin XII used a Coffman cartridge starter, and so the Mk.II was not wired for electric start. When the time came to start fitting the Merlin 45, they needed the radiator of the Mk.II, but the electric start of the Mk.I. Thus, in either case, it was slightly more complicated than 'remove one engine and install another'. Hope this helps those of you seeking to make a "Battle of Britain Spitfire", and also helps those of you wanting to understand the difference between Mk.I and II. bob Edited July 7, 2014 by gingerbob Derek B and D.B. Andrus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradG Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Spitfire Group Build anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Cross Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Gents, I will ask Simon if he is comfortable with my sharing the "tweak list." I think it's a grand idea, but it's his work and I think he should have some say in where it's posted. Kagemusha and Derek B 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnarg Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 A tweak list is most appreciated.... however, is it a tweak list for a BoB Mk.II/IIa, early Mk.I, or ??? I like them both/all and hoped to have a black and white lower wing sometime. Tnarg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Cross Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 (edited) I asked Simon and he has denied me permission to post his list here due to his dispute with a particular moderator. After initially saying it was OK to post his email, he has asked members to PM me and I'll pass on your requests. Edited July 7, 2014 by Bill Cross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Mike Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 It's not like we can't get the information elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dekenba Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I asked Simon and he has denied me permission to post his list here. due to his dispute with a particular moderator. He has asked members to email him directly at simon_erland@hotmail.com. It's his ball and he's taking it home with him. Good grief. I was under the mistaken assumption that he was a grown adult. Bill Cross 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Mike Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 So, trying to stay the course, how would the elevators/rudder issue be resolved? I'm assuming that fabric covered would be appropriate for BoB Mk Is, and IIs. When were the metal elevators/rudders introduced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Cross Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Rudders & ailerons in resin are pretty conventional, so hopefully Roy Sutherland of Master Casters are lurking on these threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 So, trying to stay the course, how would the elevators/rudder issue be resolved? I'm assuming that fabric covered would be appropriate for BoB Mk Is, and IIs. When were the metal elevators/rudders introduced? No issue there- rudder and elevators remained fabric covered generally until very late (like 1945). It's the ailerons that are a problem. I'm not doing any kit comparison until I get this new one in me greedy paws, but I hope there's a simple solution. Yeah, you lot would just sand smooth and scratch build a whole new surface, but I'm lazy whenever given the chance! bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geedubelyer Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) Talking of fabric covered control surfaces, the BoB Memorial flight aircraft have patterns in the fabric. Is that the same for WWII machines? Probably so subtle that they would be imperceptable in 1/32nd scale but I wonder if any aftermarket guys will attempt it? It might be possible to create the effect by using masking and building up the paint. I thought about using that technique on a primer layer then painting the cammo over the top as normal. Edited July 8, 2014 by geedubelyer Bill Cross 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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