Kagemusha Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Matty, I agree with all you have said, though I would add this: It's very confusing for us non-experts when two knowledgeable members can't even agree about whether a change was a field modification or a factory improvement. But more to the point, I suspect that most of us on this thread (and others about the Spitfire Mk.II kit) are MODELERS LOOKING FOR GUIDANCE. In other words, we want practical suggestions. If this is a defective kit, then what do we need to do in order to bring it more in-line with the original? As I have said several times, there are no alternative BoB Spitties on the horizon. The cavalry isn't coming to save us, the Carpathia isn't going to get here in time, at least not for us senior members, We have to eschew the kit entirely, or else look for remedies to improve it. Some of you hate the kit and won't touch it. For me, tell me how to fix the kit. Period. It's better than having no BoB Spitfire at all. The Mk.II isn't really a BoB Spitfire, however if say you wanted to build a late Mk.II and add the strengthening strakes atop the wings, and someone said they weren't built like that, you can just say they were a field mod. So there is a practical point to what is being discussed. No doubt Revell and/or an am manufacturer will point the way to build a MkI, so you can have your BoB Spitfire might just have to wait a while. Bill Cross 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Cross Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 The Mk.II isn't really a BoB Spitfire, however if say you wanted to build a late Mk.II and add the strengthening strakes atop the wings, and someone said they weren't built like that, you can just say they were a field mod. So there is a practical point to what is being discussed. No doubt Revell and/or an am manufacturer will point the way to build a MkI, so you can have your BoB Spitfire might just have to wait a while. Yes, I understand it's not really BoB, but the old Revell-Hasegawa kit was a Mk.I/II if I recall. Presumably this kit can be back-dated? I'm mid-sixties, I don't know how long I'll want to wait for a BoB Spitfire, LOL. I don't have the interest in re-scribing another R/H kit even if I could find one on eBay. So I'm watching this kit very closely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Brooks Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Perhaps Edgar and Simon are employing different methodologies in seeking the truth. Mine is very simple; pick out a book, magazine, file, ledger, in fact anything (on any subject) that looks interesting, and delve in, with no preconceived ideas. Anything that appears interesting gets filed for future reference. I have to be prepared to find something which doesn't fit with what I already "know," and accept it, or I'm wasting my time. As an example, thanks to a Vickers ledger, I know why the Spitfire IX & XVI (some of them) had a bulged top cowling. About 3 years ago, I found a signal, from Malta, prior to the Wasp deliveries, asking for Spitfires to be delivered in "sea scheme." Naturally, I though it meant Temperate Sea Scheme (i.e R.N. colours,) but, a month ago, in a totally different file, I found an instruction, from the Air Ministry, saying that, when Malta asked for "sea scheme," they meant Mediterranean Blue; the instruction was on Hurricanes, but it'd be a brave man (which I'm not) who would say that didn't also apply to Spitfires, In fact I've also found an exchange of signals, where Malta asked for high-flying fighters (Spitfire VI, VII, or VIII?) to have their light grey uppers over-painted dark blue, and Middle East Command told them they could have temperate scheme and like it. Edgar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peterpools Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I'm hoping a few AM companies see the potential for producing the necessary detail sets to back the the MKII to a BOB MKIa. Like Bill, I'm in my mid 60's as well and am hoping for some resin goodies to get us going. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelingbob Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I'm hoping a few AM companies see the potential for producing the necessary detail sets to back the the MKII to a BOB MKIa. Like Bill, I'm in my mid 60's as well and am hoping for some resin goodies to get us going. Peter Me three! Agree 100%, except I'm a few years younger than Bill/Pete! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peterpools Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Just wondering if this Greymatter set would be a good start to backdating the Spit MKII to a MKIa. http://www.greymatterfigures.com/index.php?p=2&id=68 Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kagemusha Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 That's a Mk.IX, apparently Barracuda are working on some stuff, maybe build a 109 or three and the required parts will be available..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Cross Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Just wondering if this Greymatter set would be a good start to backdating the Spit MKII to a MKIa. http://www.greymatterfigures.com/index.php?p=2&id=68 No, but this looks like it would be helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJL Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) Mine is very simple; pick out a book, magazine, file, ledger, in fact anything (on any subject) that looks interesting, and delve in, with no preconceived ideas. Anything that appears interesting gets filed for future reference. I have to be prepared to find something which doesn't fit with what I already "know," and accept it, or I'm wasting my time. As an example, thanks to a Vickers ledger, I know why the Spitfire IX & XVI (some of them) had a bulged top cowling. About 3 years ago, I found a signal, from Malta, prior to the Wasp deliveries, asking for Spitfires to be delivered in "sea scheme." Naturally, I though it meant Temperate Sea Scheme (i.e R.N. colours,) but, a month ago, in a totally different file, I found an instruction, from the Air Ministry, saying that, when Malta asked for "sea scheme," they meant Mediterranean Blue; the instruction was on Hurricanes, but it'd be a brave man (which I'm not) who would say that didn't also apply to Spitfires, In fact I've also found an exchange of signals, where Malta asked for high-flying fighters (Spitfire VI, VII, or VIII?) to have their light grey uppers over-painted dark blue, and Middle East Command told them they could have temperate scheme and like it. Edgar As an aside Edgar I've found some lovely unmolested samples of Hawker Yellow recently, That daughter of mine is looking foward to renewing that stoush! Edited July 2, 2014 by SJL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peterpools Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Thanks guys, starting to look for the upgrades and at least there is one that is now available. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kagemusha Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 No, but this looks like it would be helpful. That's for the old Revell/Hasegawa release. Patience people!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artful69 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 ... especially as K9942 suffered a "Category B" flying accident in February 1942, then went to an OTU (where anything could have happened during training flights, including retrofitting of modifications,) before going to the museum. As for the reason for an earlier airframe getting modified wings, if the production lines for the I & II have been shut down, where else would an OTU get a set of A wings but from the V production line? ... ... Funnily enough ... having just finished reading James Hollands account of "The Battle of Britain" (and being further educated) ... I remembered this part about the reorganisation of aircraft repair ... I thought about the same thing ... anything salvageable, was. Common sense to do so, really, but I wouldn't have thought about this otherwise. It's the same with motor vehicle repairs ... if a part needs replacing in a vehicle model that is now obsolete, you can either find a reconditioned used part, or find a new part - not specifically made for that model - but one that fits exactly the same and may be, in some ways, better! P.S. One thing forgotten (or ignored) by those who deride people, like me, who go on these paper-chases, is that official documents rarely make claims that can't be substantiated, and it's usually very easy to cross-check, IF you're prepared to put in the legwork; it's all too easy to make some extravagant statement on a website, but, without some sort of evidence to back it up, it's often not worth a can of beans. I agree ... any proposition without documented evidence ... or at least multiple concurring eyewitness accounts ... is just hearsay. Rog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_K2 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I always liked my brothers take on scientific conclusions; gather as much data as is know to be available, analyze that data and draw intelligent conclusions, presume those conclusions to be the truth until proven otherwise. Derek B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Matt Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Just a short note to clarify folks. King_K series won't be on LSP any longer. Every opportunity was afforded but the combative, unrepentant tone was not adjusted. This is evidence of our resolve to ensure LSP remains civil irrespective of someones talent as a modeller or passion for a subject. It's also evidence of my resolve to ensure the welfare of my staff who have had undue levels of angst having to deal with the fallout from the various threads. It's always the staffs preference to moderate in a way that facilitates diversity and respect for each members opinions...including King_K series's. There's no moderating manual and despite the best of intentions its innevitable that our interventions don't always meet with universal satisfaction. Unfortunately we sometimes encounter intransigence and this, as opposed to being accomodating, makes us as mods far more likely to dig our heels in. I'd have rathered things be different but it is what it is. Matty Bill Cross and DougN 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Mike Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 So, back to our modelling dilemma: to get back to a Mk I Spitty... Remove the Coffman starter bulge stbd side nose... Fabric ailerons? 3 blade prop; is the spinner OK? Armored(armoured?) windscreen? what else? oh yeah, the oil cooler thingy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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