F104 G Starfighter USAF

[F`s are my favs]

While waiting for the oil paints on the Nighthawk to dry properly, I just started another very special kit - the Italeri's Starfighter G/S:

 

 

However, I'm still not certain of the exact version yet . This is my first of the US legacy planes if we don't count the SR-71. Althought it is the G/S version by default, and the included markings are all about German, Spanish, Italian, etc. planes, I'm 100% positive I want a conversion into a US plane with the shiny aluminum panels. My knowledge about the Starfighter is slim, anyway, the bare metal US version is the only kind of this plane that I always liked a lot.

 

I did my best to find US aftermarket decals ever since I got the kit... but I could't. So, I got me high-res pics of the two decal sheets for the C version, and started studying/comparing them. I'm 99% optimistic I'll manage to do the conversion - I have the four national insignias from leftover kits that are in the correct registry and size (already compared them). The big black letters can easily be made out of masks as they are the same color. For everything else (stencils/smaller signs) - I'll use combinations of the included decal sheets - even with some little modifications, they will work. However, that's all I know at the moment...

 

This kit offers a TON of options, and there are many steps in the instructions that include optional parts for 4-5-6 versions, including the C and G version. My knowledge extents to that the C version is the main US Starfighter, and that there was a moment when the G version was also with the US markings/bare aluminum before delivery to Europe. This made me lean towards the G version, but again - I'm not certain at all. I'd appreciate any help and bits of advice! I just don't know what to do. I downloaded two huge (100+ pages) magazines from where I learned that the G version from that period flew either from Luke AFB or somewhere in Southern California, had larger tail with fully moveable rudder, two sidewinder rails under the fuselage, and an improved radar system (but I'll keep the radome closed). I got me several aftermarket parts throughout the years - an AIRES pilot figure/seat, a Reskit nozzle, and 3D instrument panel decals by Quinta Studio:

 

 

At first glance, the kit includes optional parts for the nozzle, the seats, the main wheel well doors, the intake cowlings, the tires, and I could be missing something. As the aftermarket parts go - here are my doubts:

 

1) I got that AIRES pilot figure only because I want a pilot figure, but it has a seat as well... which is the standard Lockheed seat, but it should be the Martin Baker seat for the G version. So, was there a time/possible reason for the Startfighers to use the Lockheed seet instead. Or, if I do a conversion to the C version - is it realistic to keep the Lockheed seat then? Otherwise, if neither versions used the Lockheed seat, I can just cut it from the part and use the OOB Martin Baker seat instead (which is very good btw). 

 

2) The ResKit resin nozzle - it is with the longer turkey feathers, and is way better than the two optional nozzles from the kit, so I want to use it. But, did either one of the C/G versions use this longer type of nozzle? If not, I can shorter the afterburner can a bit, so the nozzle sits further inside the fuselage, and make it look like the shorter one. 

 

I'm sure I'll have many questions along the way, and I appreciate any tips and ideas. I have quite some documentaries to watch and read about this plane as well, but this is another hobby by itself. So, I started from the cockpit - there at least is one option only, and the instruction sheet for the Quinta Studio decals says ''F-104G''... It's also my first time using 3D printed decals and I checked a couple of tutorials... it looks relatively easy. I started by flattening the instrument panels on the OOB parts... it was an adventure:

 

 

 

I'm not promising, but I want to ''simplify'' the assembly phase as much as possible.  Only the wheels will be retractable for an in-flight and parked display, and the canopy will be moveable. The emphazis would be on the bare metal skin, for which I'm gonna use a combination of the AMMO Aluminum Tape and another self-adhesive aluminum tape from the hardware store (that looks just about the same as the AMMO's, but slightly thicker). It will be my first time doing things like that as well. Alternatively, I got a bottle of Micro Metal Foil Adhesive by Microscale and tried using it with bare kitchen foil... I did trials at least 2 years ago with the two methods, and the results were exactly the same. I initially thought that the Microscale's MMFA will harden with the time and will hold stronger, etc. but nope, it's absolutely the same as the self-adhesive tape, just requires extra attention during application. I'll use the self-adhesive tapes instead.

 

First things first - on to the cockpit. Which reminds me of another question I had today - is it allrgith to glue the decal directly on the central console as it is, with the hole on the plastic surface that used to be the radar screen? Is the decal strong/hard enough to keep a straight shape, or is there a risk of concaving down due to the ''hole'' for the radar screen underneath? Thx!

 

 

 

 

Edited January 1 by F`s are my favs

[MikeC]

The Luftwaffe training unit, aka the "Lukewaffe" ( from being based at Luke AFB) were F-104Gs belonging to the German AF, but operating in US markings, mostly nmf. They sound like your ideal subject as you'd be correct to build it as a G version. Plenty of info on this site: http://www.916-starfighter.de/

[Kagemusha]

If you search F-104G Luke AFB you will find loads of suitable subjects

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The bomb dispenser seems to be prevalent, Videoaviation make an excellent rendition at superb value, link

[F`s are my favs]

Yep, thx very much for the photos, Kagemusha. I also reviewed the website that MikeC shared... and I almost downloaded all the photos of the Luke AFB Starfighters.  I'll pick a specific airframe later in the build, but so far I'm happy that there are options. I'm after a rather clean build - with just the two fuel pods on the wing tips. Here is what makes me wonder the most now:

 

- the front/larger doors of the MLG - they look not completely closed (in closed position) - is it normal like that, or maybe it's just luck (to find photos taken at this specific moment during the closing of the wheel well door)?

- Also, as far as I understand, the cones and the air intake lips are black on all the photos I came across - were all the planes from the variant with ''black intakes'' indeed, or is it just luck to find such images only?

- And right behind the canopy (also on all photos), along the centerline on the top, there is something like a ''small'' yellow-ish panel - is it some sort of a provision for something, or what is it?

- The arresting hook - was it standard for all the planes from the variant (G's at Luke AFB)?

- About the ejection seat - I found info that it was possible that the G planes were produced with the Lockheed seat (C2, or Type 2 maybe?!) and later retrofitted with the Martin Baker seat. If this is true, can I keep the seat for the resin casting as it is? (although it appears a bit smaller when testfitted in the plastic rails on the rear bulkhead).

 

Thank you all for the insight! 

Edited January 1 by F`s are my favs

[MikeC]

4 minutes ago, F`s are my favs said:

the front/larger doors of the MLG - they look not completely closed (in closed position) - is it normal like that,

Yep.  All due to the position of a particular strut iirc.

Edited January 1 by MikeC

[Dave Williams]

31 minutes ago, F`s are my favs said:

Yep, thx very much for the photos, Kagemusha. I also reviewed the website that MikeC shared... and I almost downloaded all the photos of the Luke AFB Starfighters.  I'll pick a specific airframe later in the build, but so far I'm happy that there are options. I'm after a rather clean build - with just the two fuel pods on the wing tips. Here is what makes me wonder the most now:

 

- the front/larger doors of the MLG - they look not completely closed (in closed position) - is it normal like that, or maybe it's just luck (to find photos taken at this specific moment during the closing of the wheel well door)?

- Also, as far as I understand, the cones and the air intake lips are black on all the photos I came across - were all the planes from the variant with ''black intakes'' indeed, or is it just luck to find such images only?

- And right behind the canopy (also on all photos), along the centerline on the top, there is something like a ''small'' yellow-ish panel - is it some sort of a provision for something, or what is it?

- The arresting hook - was it standard for all the planes from the variant (G's at Luke AFB)?

- About the ejection seat - I found info that it was possible that the G planes were produced with the Lockheed seat (C2, or Type 2 maybe?!) and later retrofitted with the Martin Baker seat. If this is true, can I keep the seat for the resin casting as it is? (although it appears a bit smaller when testfitted in the plastic rails on the rear bulkhead).

 

Thank you all for the insight! 

The front MLG doors are always slightly open when the gear is down.  The extended gear retraction strut prevents them from closing fully.

 

The intake lips and shock cones were normally painted black with a special coating to prevent icing.

 

The yellowish panel on the spine is a UHF antenna.

 

All F-104s (except for maybe very early models) had the arrestor hook as standard equipment.  It wasn’t for carrier landings.  It was for airfield barrier gear that could be fitted to the end of runways to stop an aircraft that had brake failure

 

German Gs were initially fitted with the Lockheed C2 seat.  Around 1967, they were refitted with MB GQ-7 seats.  The Luftwaffe Gs used in the U.S. for training received the same updates.

Edited January 1 by Dave Williams

[Finn]

Also note the anti-collision light on top of the fuselage:

 

 

Jari

[Smokey]

If you need a MB seat how is this?

 

EDU632048 1:32 Eduard Brassin F-104 Starfighter MB.7 Ejection Seat (ITA kit) - Sprue Brothers Models LLC

[F`s are my favs]

So, did I get this right - is this the right config, for example, for airframe 65-12750?

 

- the Lockheed seat (let's say before the update with the MB seat)  ;

- the spoked tire rims;

- the nozzle with the thinner feathers;

- the bulged front MLG door;

- the intake cowlings with the squared APU doors;

- plus the anti-collision light on the top fuselage.

Edited January 2 by F`s are my favs

[Dave Williams]

That intake is only for the F-104S.  The door is an auxiliary air intake used for takeoffs because the -S has a more powerful engine.  Use the other intake with the trapezoid shaped hatch in the side.  
 

How the F-104S intake doors work, and a picture, are in question 13 of this FAQ.

http://www.916-starfighter.de/Q&A.htm

 

65-12750 history.

 

http://www.916-starfighter.de/Large/Luke/65-12750.htm

 

 

Edited January 2 by Dave Williams

[F`s are my favs]

Thanks Dave! Thumbs up, and noted. 

[Biggles87]

Always liked the ‘104 so I’ll follow if I may.

I was involved with the International Air Tattoo at Greenham Common and Fairford in the late ‘70s and 80s as one of the Runway Controllers and on arrivals day some of the ‘104 pilots would work the throttle in the circuit to produce the characteristic ‘ howl ‘ which we always enjoyed.

 

John

[Finn]

A look down the intake:

 

 

Jari

[F`s are my favs]

Awesome pic, Jari, TU. I still can't believe this intake has no moving parts and yet, it flew at Mach 2....  

 

Btw I'm fighting with the resin seat/pilot now... there is something out of scale, and I think it is the seat. Here is how it looks like in a testfit with the canopy and the rear rails that do a ''connectiom'' between the seat launch rails and the rear bulkhead of the cockpit... the long pieces with the six ribs at the top. Check out the alignment I highlighted in red lines (from the plane side) and yellow lines (from the seat side). 

 

 

 

Well, on every single pic of the plane with the Lockheed seat that I find - the alignment is like this:

 

 

 

The uppermost (yellow) flat line of the seat must be slightly above or the uppermost (red) line/rib of the 6-ribbed piece. There is just no way around... there is no room to play with the position of the seat up and down, as it is cast together with the pilot figure, and the helmet bumps into the canopy (this is the highest possible position in my pics from the testfit above). I can't move the 6-ribbed pieces either... they are made to fit perfectly with the rest of the pieces and the tube along the canopy framing. Meanwhile, I quickly assembled the MK seat from the kit just to give it a go, and everything fits perfectly. So, I'm considering to try to separate the pilot figure from the seat somehow... and if everything goes beatifully, I'll just glue them back by fitting the pilot lower than before. Eventually, if something cracks and breaks in multiple pieces, I may still end up using the OOB MK seat.  But no way to leave the things like that. I want to make the cockpit look small, busy and cramped, like on the pics, and there should be no big ''void'' spaces between the seat area and the top of the canopy.

 

 

Edited January 2 by F`s are my favs

[rigor]

I like how you make the moving parts of the aircraft so when are you gonna build one with the pilot ejecting