Italeri Macchi C.202 Folgore. FINISHED… well almost!

[MDriskill]

6 hours ago, quang said:

While waiting for the build to move on, I’m trying to pick a colour scheme (and subsequently a variant) for my Folgore. 
I’ve ended with these four machines taken from Ali e Colori 004:

Obviously I like the darker camouflage and …the inner coward told me to leave the smoke rings to havana fans and other bolder spirits.

My problem is that I didn’t find any period photograph related to those subjects and like the wise man said: never trust a profile unless… etc.

So if by any chance, one of you guys have access to the above subjects and is willing to share it with me, I’d be eternally grateful.

 

Well, you're just pushing all my Macchi Obsession Buttons now! I did find this photo of "97-5:"

 

It's in this excellent new Osprey book. It has fine color profiles (by Richard Caruana), incorporating some newer research, and a worthy adjunct to Mr. Brioschi's Ali d'Italia and Ali e Colori classics:   https://ospreypublishing.com/us/macchi-c202c205v-units-in-combat-9781472850683/

 

But otherwise, I'm discovering (as I suspect you have) that my books have several pics of similar aircraft, but not the exact examples from the profiles. I too love the early dark camo schemes, but am an even bigger coward! To me nothing shows off the C.202's lines better than the all-green ones:

 

 

Besides the previously-mentioned physical differences between these early machines and Italeri's mid-to-late production molding, Mr. Brioschi nicely describes the transition from "Mimetico" camo colors on the "poached egg" schemes, to the "Tavola 10" shades that followed.

 

An interesting detail that showed up in later research was the blue "Celeste" paint on the front of the prop - nice discussion of that here: https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235064427-ww2-italian-“celeste”-prop-color/

Edited September 4, 2023 by MDriskill

[Shoggz]

2 hours ago, Ayovan said:

I'm ambidextrous. 

 

I’d give my right arm to be ambidextrous..

[quang]

I realise that I’m missing two essential volumes: the Valiant book and the Osprey C.202/205 Units in Combat.

1 hour ago, MDriskill said:

I too love the early dark camo schemes, but am an even bigger coward! To me nothing shows off the C.202's lines better than the all-green ones:

I concur with you that the ‘continental’ camouflage suits best the sleek lines of the Folgore. However the archer insignia would be a beast to reproduce in miniature and I’m not prepared to pay 20 euros+ for a decal sheet.

 

Should I find some suitable photographs, my first choices for the Italeri kit are the 91 stormo (Gato Nero) in Malta.

The red arrow rank marking on the wheel covers would add a welcome touch of colour.

 

1 hour ago, MDriskill said:

An interesting detail that showed up in later research was the blue "Celeste" paint on the front of the prop - nice discussion of that here: https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235064427-ww2-italian-“celeste”-prop-color/

I already made good use of your thread on my earlier Belgian Fiat CR.42 

It would be nice if Italeri did include the Piaggio logos on its decal sheet.

Thank you all for your comments,

Cheers,

Quang

[MDriskill]

The "black cats" would be beautiful! Not only the colorful arrowheads, but those neatly outlined numerals looks great on the "reversed mottle" dark scheme to me.

 

One issue with my recent 1/72 build was the "Skymodels" decal sheet, whose multitude of options is awesome at first glance...but turned out to be a mess. Many markings are weirdly oversized. I don't have the 1/48 version of the sheet, but wouldn't be surprised if it had an "Archer" that might pass for the smallish version on "71-2." Maybe some other usable tidbits, too.

Edited September 5, 2023 by MDriskill

[quang]

It’s not so much the design of the archer as the text which must be legible. 

[mc65]

hi Quang,

I searched the books at my disposal, but actually I didn't find any images corresponding to the profiles you identified (beautiful, by the way. I also love the dark livery more, even if I think I'll risk trying the smoke rings, at least for the first one that I will realize).

anyway, I found something close, see if it can help you:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the pics come from various texts and I have reproduced part of them for the sole purpose of discussion, anyway they are easily available on the web. in case you are interested in some in particular I try to deepen the research on the specific specimen.

 

cheers, Paolo

 

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by mc65

[quang]

Great pics, Paolo! They’re definitely of a great help.
I particularly like the reverse colouring (sand blotches over olive green background) of the first 3 photos. One can see that the blotches were regular and methodically applied, not as random as other examples.

I’ll try to deepen my research on Sgt-major Faliero Gelli’s plane (M.M.7842 ?) which was hit and force landed on the island of Gozo during the Malta siege.

I suspect there were more photos of the crash taken by the islanders. Your help would be invaluable on that matter.

Thank you again @mc65 for your help and good night.

Cheers,

Quang

Edited September 4, 2023 by quang

[MikeMaben]

On 9/4/2023 at 4:14 PM, quang said:

I particularly like the reverse colouring (sand blotches over olive green background) of the first 3 photos. One can see that the blotches were regular and methodically applied, not as random as other examples.

 

The first 3 pix are of the same a/c. From what I've read/observed , all Italian cammo was random.

[quang]

4 hours ago, MikeMaben said:

 

The first 3 pix are of the same a/c.

I beg to disagree, Mike.
First photo is of 378-1. Photos #2 and #3 are of 378-11.

 

4 hours ago, MikeMaben said:

From what I've read/observed , all Italian cammo was random.

Indeed. What I meant in my earlier post is this:

Let’s study those 3 pics together with photo #5 of 378-5 and the two profiles of 378-6 and 378-9 I posted earlier.
While the blotches were not exactly identical, we can see a consistency in the way the camouflage was applied: the shape of the blotches, their size and their distribution (the spacing between them). To me it’s an indication that those planes were painted as a same block, in the same factory and by the same people.

Maybe an explanation here:

Edited September 6, 2023 by quang

[MDriskill]

4 hours ago, quang said:

Indeed. What I meant in my earlier post is this:

Let’s study those 3 pics together with photo #5 of 378-5 and the two profiles of 378-6 and 378-9 I posted earlier.
While the blotches were not exactly identical, we can see a consistency in the way the camouflage was applied: the shape of the blotches, their size and their distribution (the spacing between them). To me it’s an indication that those planes were painted as a same block, in the same factory and by the same people.

That is my understanding as well. Elsewhere in the Ali e Colori no. 4, it's noted that only about 30 aircraft were finished in this "reversed" scheme, all of them Macchi-built "Serie III" machines. They were finished in a very consistent manner.

 

In fact Mr. Brioschi built that book around assuming consistent painting, LOL! The Macchi, Breda, and SAI factory schemes were different, and each evolved over time. But at any given point, consecutive machines were similar enough that one can accurately ID the manufacturer, and gauge an approximate build date, by finish alone.

Edited September 6, 2023 by MDriskill

[quang]

9 minutes ago, MDriskill said:

In fact Mr. Brioschi built that book around consistent painting, LOL! The Macchi, Breda, and SAI factory schemes were different, and each evolved over time, but at any given point consecutive machines were similar enough to allow identifying manufacturer and approximate build date by finish alone.

Fascinating stuff indeed. It’s the reason why it took me so long to decide which scheme I’d choose for the kit. 
Smoke ring fans think they’re safe but are no luckier because like the blotches, the ring shapes also vary depending on where and when they were applied. 

[Dpgsbody55]

Loving this.  It's giving me plenty of things to think about before I start building mine.

 

 

Cheers,

Michael

[quang]

1 hour ago, Dpgsbody55 said:

Loving this.  It's giving me plenty of things to think about before I start building mine.

 

 

Cheers,

Michael

I knew it would be complicated but I didn’t expect it would take this long… like standing in front of the ice-cream man: vanilla or pistachio? 

[Dpgsbody55]

7 hours ago, quang said:

I knew it would be complicated but I didn’t expect it would take this long… like standing in front of the ice-cream man: vanilla or pistachio? 

 

Or have one, then go back for the other.    I'm sure that's not a definition of....  errrr.... something .

 

 

Cheers,

Michael

[Thunnus]

On 9/4/2023 at 2:47 PM, quang said:

It’s not so much the design of the archer as the text which must be legible. 

 

Mr. Quang... it would relatively easy to create custom decal of the archer insignia, no?  A simple scan, size and print of the black area onto clear decal paper?  I can run a test if you want me to.