Westland Wasp HAS 1: 1/24th Scale.

[Anthony in NZ]

Yup, you're an inspiration to many of us here as to what can be achieved!

I am learning Solidworks 2024 atm, I can only dream of what you guys make at the moment.

Daddy.....when I grow up I want to be just like you 

[LSP_Kevin]

A-mazing...

 

Kev

[Ivan Womack]

Hi,

Been a while since there was an update. Hope you're still making progress. Im loving this and would love to purchase when ready. Thanks

[Azgaron]

Excellent work so far!

 

Håkan

 

[TheBaron]

 

 

We've moved a fair distance round the sun since the last update, so probably time to shows some signs that this project is still going - in and around the other cares of life!

 

On 2/3/2024 at 5:00 PM, Derek B said:

 

I love coming to school, er, I mean reading your posts, as they are so educational! 

 

I ran out of superlatives a long time ago, so all I can say is that it is awesome work on a scale that I have never seen before...well done Tony.

Derek - that's extremely kind of you - thank-you!

 

On 2/3/2024 at 8:55 PM, Copicops said:

This is insane, probably one of the best self modelled project I have ever seen.

Thank you sir  I think a certain absence of sanity is certainly required - that and not knowing in advance what you've let yourself in for!!

On 2/3/2024 at 10:07 PM, Out2gtcha said:

Tremendous work!

I could only hope to get to this level of 3D printing and design.

Dead decent of you to say that. Thanks.

 

It's my earnest contention that if someone can draw even half-decently with pencil & paper, they can produce this kind of work themselves. It's also great the way these tools can add variety and excitement to this hobby.

 

On 2/3/2024 at 11:43 PM, Anthony in NZ said:

Yup, you're an inspiration to many of us here as to what can be achieved!

I am learning Solidworks 2024 atm, I can only dream of what you guys make at the moment.

Daddy.....when I grow up I want to be just like you 

 

Seriously Anthony - you don't.

You'll just get funny looks when you're out in public like me....

 

On 2/4/2024 at 12:26 AM, LSP_Kevin said:

A-mazing...

 

Ta Kev.

On 4/22/2024 at 10:02 PM, Ivan Womack said:

Hi,

Been a while since there was an update. Hope you're still making progress. Im loving this and would love to purchase when ready. Thanks

Thanks Ivan and yes - as you can see below work is still happening.

Happy to sell you a kit when things are ready - can you PM me as to which scale you'd like? (It'll be available in 1/24 and 1/32 scales).

On 4/23/2024 at 5:47 PM, Azgaron said:

Excellent work so far!

Thanks Håkan! 

 

The short version is the sheer number of CAD components awaiting realization in physical form got somewhat out of hand in that I'd begun to forget what was what, so I sat down and over the last couple of months have been outputting, supporting and test-printing these various parts.

 

I managed to crack the glass on my 3d printer which slowed things down waiting for the  replacement glass to arrive and fitting it. Working out what parts - for reasons of fragility and material strength - would need producing in the (much) stronger Hard Tough resin from eSun which you'd seen me use previously (the black stuff), and which would be happy using just Elegoo's 8k Space grey or Standard Grey resins took up most of the time since the last update. The only sure way to work which needed the tougher resin was to print them in standard grey and see which bits (thankfully not that many) failed or were not strong enough to survive handling/assembly. 

 

These are the successful results of this process:

 - and to dispel any notion that over time you get good enough for anything but single parts here and there to print successfully first time, here is a selection from the 'boneyard' of prints which failed either due to inadequate orientation and/or support design, or the standard resin lacking structural strength for very thin regions on a part:

I'd shown the design for the rear wall of the cabin on here before but have since revised the design of it in Fusion so that the angled rear-window panels on either side of the central panel integrated are now into the one part:

This should make assembly easier in term of keeping them at the correct angle to support the vacformed roof transparencies:

All surface details remain present in the 1/32 version below as well; my guesses about minimum feature size in the 1/24 version that will survive scaling down seem to be holding up pretty consistently across the model so far:

The doors too are now finalized in physical form, both front:

 - and rear sets:

Similarly, I haven't found any detail absent from the 1/32 versions:

One of the door pillars at 1/24.o The lozenge shaped feature is for the naviagation light which will be printed separately using AnyCubic's High Clear resin and tinted:

The sliding windows for pilot/obervers had their frames printed using eSun Hard Tough resin as they were too thin for the 8k resin:

Again the 1/32 version of these also survived reduction ins scale and printed as well. Amongst a number of other components that turned out to need reproduction using the black eSun resin for strength were the jury struts onto which the floation gear attaches as the front:

On the 1/24 version shown here you can see from the translucency down the sides just how thin the edges of that I-beam shape are. The translucency eviudent below also indicated how thin the walls of the recess which the float gear struts fit into are. This necessitated adding a small reinforcing panel inside of there on either side:

The 1/32 version worked fine:

The walls of the strut recesses were so terribly thin at 1/32 though that I could only have holes for the flotation gear struts themselves to mount into, leaving just a visual suggestion of the shape of the recess itself:

The driveshafts from main to reduction gearboxes were also done up in black stuff as they'll aid support and alignment the entire engine/gearbox asssembly when it sits on the egnine deck later on:

The rear cabin framing at 1/24:

 - and at 1/32. Both self-evidently neededthe stronger resin to avoid breakage during kit assembly:

I wasn't sure if the door handles (on the right end) would work at 1/24 but they did:

More improbably however they also printed at 1/32 using the smallest feasible tree support I could devise in VDT:

Using Elegoo's 8k resin, definition of detail on the nose section was extremely rewarding at both 1/32:

 - and 1/24:

The two large holes dead centre aren't obviously present on the actual Wasp but are drain holes added here to avoid suction issues during printing, which had caused print/support failures in early tests. These also coinicide handily however with those traces of striation you can see at the tip of the nose, so both issues can be dealt with in the same operation without the risk of damage to surrounding features.

 

My heavy handling during support removal resulted in some fracturing along the cheek window guttering, though such issues are easy enough repaired with some tape, resin and the UV laser:

UThe lower section of the nose showing RADALT enclosures, which agaqin will have their honeycombed glazing printed separately from clear resin:

Designs for both Bthe Mk44 & 46 torpedoes were tested in 8k resin:

Mk.44 first - this turned out nice and sharp at both scales:

I wasn't too concerned about the support structures for that annular feature at the rear on the 1/24 scale:

But did find an issue with my supports for the fins not being robust enough at 1/32:

This has since been reprinted successfully with the offending supports being made 2 microns thicker. Sometimes all it needs is a little tweak!

 

The propeller assemblies of the Mk.44 at 1/32; I have to say the support design routines in Voxeldance's Tango software have performed outstandingly with everything I've thrown at it on the trickiest of thin features like these:

The Mk.46 reproduced equally well at both scales, with no features failing:

Part definion on the props for both sets. 1/24 looked nice:

1/32 turned out far less of a problem than I'd feared due to the responsiveness of the support processes in VDT:

All the fiddly detail on the carrier racks and sway braces which took so long to do up in CAD had me very happy at the printed results -  there were no features missing or compromised at either scale (both sides shown below at 1/24):

 

Details like the suspension bands on the torpedo bodies also turned out nice and sharp using the 8k resin:

The landing light assemblies and transponders at both scales:

The main fairing sehown here at 1/24:

With the same level of detail still present in the 1/32 version:

Temptation struck and I couldn't resist dlashing together a 1/32 test print of the Mk.46 torpedothe other night 'just to check' that the parts fitted together successfully:

 

 

 

Over last weekend I sat down, went through the existing printed parts inventory and drew up a snag sheet for all the parts still needing to be designed in CAD:

The bulk of this as you can see involves the cabin & cockpit interiors, so in preparation for the next phase, here are the reference mosaics I work from ready to start preliminary sketches for those areas:

There's a lot inside there to get wrong so I'm curently at work on the drawing board with pencil and paper, sketching out the various features and forms to get a better understanding of the various fittings and how they interact in space.

 

Thanks for reading as always and best wishes for success in your own work.

Tony

Edited April 26 by TheBaron

[mozart]

Thank you for that HUGE and fascinating update Tony, and I’m delighted that all your meticulous design work has been realised successfully in both the larger scales, it’s going to be a stupendous model that’s for sure. 

[LSP_Kevin]

Just utterly jaw-dropping, Tony.

 

Kev

[Archimedes]

Your dedication to detail and getting this right is astonishing! Just keep on going: you are doing an amazing job!

 

Kind regards,

Paul

[Paulpk]

Tony…outstanding. I notice your parts don’t show any striations, just perfect surfaces. What determines that finish?

The 8K resin, is that stronger than the 4K?

[Anthony in NZ]

12 hours ago, TheBaron said:

Seriously Anthony - you don't.

You'll just get funny looks when you're out in public like me....

Hahaha, I probably do already!

 

Seriously though, this is totally unbelievable skills in action.

 

I have read and re-read this update about 3 times and studied all your details.  The level of detail going in is astonishing and I had no idea this was possible at such a level and on one of my all time favorite airframes....spectacular and humbling all at once!

 

Now enough of the mushy stuff....cant have you feeling too big headed

 back to it....

 

Cheers Anthony

[Jim Barry]

This is amazing. Scratch in 1/24 (my favorite!). The CAD and printing work is art! 

[Derek B]

 Amazing Tony, but even that adjective seems totally inadequate!  I can only (poorly) echo the praise that others have offered to you...totally outstanding work.

 

Derek

[TheBaron]

On 4/26/2024 at 8:58 PM, mozart said:

Thank you for that HUGE and fascinating update Tony, and I’m delighted that all your meticulous design work has been realised successfully in both the larger scales, it’s going to be a stupendous model that’s for sure. 

Max, you're very kind as always.

Very much at that stage of the design process now which I refer to as the 'what have I missed' stage....

On 4/26/2024 at 9:50 PM, LSP_Kevin said:

Just utterly jaw-dropping, Tony.

Decent of you Kev.

Knowing there's such a discerning and experienced band of people on here provides a powerful impetus to push things as far as I can with the design & printing processes. I'm very grateful for that.

On 4/26/2024 at 11:16 PM, Archimedes said:

Your dedication to detail and getting this right is astonishing! Just keep on going: you are doing an amazing job!

Kind of you Paul; that's all the encouragement needed!

On 4/27/2024 at 4:02 AM, Paulpk said:

Tony…outstanding. I notice your parts don’t show any striations, just perfect surfaces. What determines that finish?

The 8K resin, is that stronger than the 4K?

Paul, Hi.

 

You're being very generous but there are a few areas of striation visible; this is always going to be the case with complex parts made up of multiple curves and angles - one of them will always prove the worm in the apple. 

 

The smoothness of a given surfaces is in my experience always dependent on juggling several superimposed factors:

1. Layer height:  5 microns is usually fine for example on large curving areas like the fuselage, whereas on small and/or detailed areas like engines and cockpits I'll use 3 microns as standard.
2. Orienting the part: in such a way as to minimize the extremity of the effect, or to have it occur in a region which will be as visually unobtrusive as possible.
3. Exposure time: sometimes you can pull extra sharpness out of a print by under-exposing (in relation to the 'ideal' value for a given layer height) and conversely, sometimes avoid striation and improve surface smoothness on larger featureless areas by over-exposing slightly.
4. Anti-aliasing: that notorious 'black art' which again you have to learn by trial and error in relation to the kind of software/printer combination which you use.
5. I don't find 8k resin stronger than 4k, simply that in using a Saturn 2 printer I find the Elegoo 8k stuff yields a slightly superior definition to small/detailed parts, compared to their standard grey stuff - the latter of these two I still use quite happily however (and have done for several years) on larger/gently-curving areas like fuselage, and so forth. The 4k/8k label is a red herring in terms of strength: it's the specific composition of the photopolymer whereby some resins are formulated for superior mechanical strength that instead matters (such as the black eSun Hard Tough stuff I've been using for regions like the undercarriage).
6. Final caveat: every item of hardware has its own particular idiosyncracies so any of the above points mentioned are always going to be relative to the actual machine printing the design (in my case a Saturn 2) and require calibration/experimentation. 

 

Summary: every subject is different Paul, beware false prophets bearing ideal/universal setttings. 

On 4/27/2024 at 6:08 AM, Anthony in NZ said:

I have read and re-read this update about 3 times and studied all your details.  The level of detail going in is astonishing and I had no idea this was possible at such a level and on one of my all time favorite airframes....spectacular and humbling all at once!

It's your own fault for sending me photos of it... 

On 4/27/2024 at 6:08 AM, Anthony in NZ said:

Now enough of the mushy stuff....cant have you feeling too big headed

 back to it....

Firm but fair.

On 4/27/2024 at 11:34 AM, Jim Barry said:

This is amazing. Scratch in 1/24 (my favorite!). The CAD and printing work is art! 

Jim that's very kind of you to say say. Thanks.

On 4/27/2024 at 1:39 PM, Derek B said:

 Amazing Tony, but even that adjective seems totally inadequate!  I can only (poorly) echo the praise that others have offered to you...totally outstanding work.

 

Derek, my thanks: I'll try not to have such a long gap before the next update my friend.

 

The preparatory sketches for cockpit & cabin were begun over the weekend:

 bn 

CAD is all very well of course but there's no substitute in my book for such pencil and paper work in helping a person to understand the nature of the various shapes involved and how they fit together in space inside of there; plus, only being flight-qualified on Vertibird, it's a necessary undertaking to help undertand what all the various controls and fittings are/do.

 

Take care until next time,

Tony

 

 

 

Edited Monday at 10:23 AM by TheBaron

[wunwinglow]

When the 'Like' button is utterly inadequate....

Edited Monday at 12:19 PM by wunwinglow

[Archimedes]

2 hours ago, TheBaron said:

CAD is all very well of course but there's no substitute in my book for such pencil and paper work in helping a person to understand the nature of the various shapes involved and how they fit together in space inside of there; plus, only being flight-qualified on Vertibird, it's a necessary undertaking to help undertand what all the various controls and fittings are/do.

 

Take care until next time,

Tony

 

 

 

Great to see your use of drawing with pencil and paper! Both drawing and CAD have their place but in this CAD driven age I fully agree with you that traditional pencil and paper drawing skills are much underrated (as is making a 3D model ‘sketch’ in found materials).

 

Kind regards,

Paul