Gil Hodges Posted November 9, 2021 Author Share Posted November 9, 2021 (edited) Worked on the ball turret last week...and have to say the instructions are worse than for the top turret. The drawings are too small and incomplete to see some important details such as side window positions. They also seem to want you to build it upside down to the final position under the belly, which (to me) is counter intuitive. It took me a full evening to figure out the correct positioning of the parts, using pics in the B-17 Walk Around book. Another problem was that the interior "guts" were too wide to fit inside and had to be trimmed so the side glass parts would close up to the center parts. The entire assembly is finicky and takes a lot of trial and error. Once everything is together the ball turret fits up into a ring flange that is the base for the upper turret structure. Oddly, HK does not provide any ammo boxes for the upper structure of the ball turret. I found some in the extra PE parts and added some structure to hold them in place. In the end, the assembly works "as advertised", and can be added at the end of the build. Another positive is that the Eduard Masks for this kit are GREAT, fitting perfectly and very easy to use! GIL Edited November 9, 2021 by Gil Hodges levier, tomprobert, chukw and 6 others 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomprobert Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 11 hours ago, Gil Hodges said: Oddly, HK does not provide any ammo boxes for the upper structure of the ball turret. HK are absolutely correct in this instance. B-17s were never fitted with external ammunition cans during WWII - interestingly most WWII warbird restorations have them fitted for some reason. My research suggests only the B-32 Dominator had external ammunition cans fitted. Both B-17 and B-24 wartime-era ball turrets had all ammunition stored internally within the turret. All the best, Tom TAG, Gil Hodges, Greg W and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil Hodges Posted November 9, 2021 Author Share Posted November 9, 2021 Interesting....and the references I'm using are probably warbirds (in the Walk Around books) with the ammo cans. What I find unbelievable is that there was room to store ammo in the ball turret....so I have to think there was some sort of external ammo feed. The HK instructions actually have steps to install the kit provided resin ammo feed trays...but they don't fit around the internal structure/gunsight and really couldn't be seen anyway, so I left those out. The "trays" would hold no more than 50 rounds tops, if that... In any case, I'll stick with my solution, be it not entirely accurate. It won't be the only thing that way! GIL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil Hodges Posted November 15, 2021 Author Share Posted November 15, 2021 Got the tail gunner's compartment done. This is relatively straight forward except for two things: 1) You need to watch the positioning of the guns on their mounting post to be sure the barrels will line up with the fuselage tail plate when it's added 2) The bulkhead between the tail gunner and the guns seems to be positioned wrong in the instructions. You can actually see the slot for the part immediately in front of the gunner's seat...if it's put there it's much too close to the seat, at at weird angle, and is too tall to fit into place. I shortened it at the bottom, moved it toward the guns, and then also trimmed the width of the top of the part to make it fit the area. It looks much more correct as this gives room for the gunner and places the top of the part vertically where it pokes out under the glass. In any case, not much will be seen....but I'm sure the gun barrels can be placed properly at the end of the build and the tail gun canopy will fit without any interference! Thanks for all of your helpful comments and continued interest! GIL MikeMaben, LSP_Kevin, themongoose and 6 others 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themongoose Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 Needs a little go-pro cam installed inside for this beauty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomprobert Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 On 11/9/2021 at 9:56 PM, Gil Hodges said: Interesting....and the references I'm using are probably warbirds (in the Walk Around books) with the ammo cans. What I find unbelievable is that there was room to store ammo in the ball turret....so I have to think there was some sort of external ammo feed. The HK instructions actually have steps to install the kit provided resin ammo feed trays...but they don't fit around the internal structure/gunsight and really couldn't be seen anyway, so I left those out. The "trays" would hold no more than 50 rounds tops, if that... In any case, I'll stick with my solution, be it not entirely accurate. It won't be the only thing that way! GIL Yeah… it sure must have been cramped in there. Surprisingly, there was internal storage for 500 rounds - amazing! nmayhew and HB252 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAG Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 On 11/9/2021 at 6:56 PM, Gil Hodges said: Interesting....and the references I'm using are probably warbirds (in the Walk Around books) with the ammo cans. What I find unbelievable is that there was room to store ammo in the ball turret....so I have to think there was some sort of external ammo feed. The HK instructions actually have steps to install the kit provided resin ammo feed trays...but they don't fit around the internal structure/gunsight and really couldn't be seen anyway, so I left those out. The "trays" would hold no more than 50 rounds tops, if that... In any case, I'll stick with my solution, be it not entirely accurate. It won't be the only thing that way! GIL Agreed, it is borderline incredible that they managed to cram all that stuff in there PLUS 500 rounds per gun in that tiny, tiny space. Here's some imagery to help illustrate what an awesome feat of engineering the ball turret really was. I guess the hardest thing to squeeze in were the big, brassy huevos the gunners must have had to get into one of these things. I mean, look at it! Here's an excerpt from the ball turret manual explaining how to load the ammo boxes. And a link for further reading, if you're so inclined. Keep up the good work on your Fort! - Thomaz Gil Hodges, B-17, Hemi and 3 others 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil Hodges Posted November 16, 2021 Author Share Posted November 16, 2021 Absolutely the BEST references on the ball turret I've ever seen, and one has to wonder why it's not included in more references on the B-17 (or the B-24). Thanks! GIL TAG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerhard Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 Thanks Thpmaz, that is a very useful link. I have my HKM 1/32 staring at me. TAG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil Hodges Posted November 21, 2021 Author Share Posted November 21, 2021 Since I think I have 99% of all of the internals done, or at least ready to be glued in place, I've started playing with the figures. Now, I KNOW that these figures are "technically" wrong for Old 666....they should have basically just flight suits and jackets for their standard flying uniforms in the Pacific (lower altitudes, hotter climate, etc.). However, these are what the client provided (ETO bomber crew with typical heavy/warm flight gear), and there's not much else to choose from out there in 1/32 that I'm aware of. I did see a 1/32 B-25 crew in "light" uniform gear...but couldn't find much in the way in actual info on them, and the price looked to be high too (and he'd have to buy 2 of them). So, bottom line is I'm going with the figures provided. Besides, outside of a very few people (like us), almost anyone he shows the model to won't know the difference! These are the 1/32 Master Details resin figures, and I'm impressed with them to begin with! They're sharply molded, with separate arms and legs, and come with a choice of 2-3 heads that are either "in flight" (O2 mask on, goggles on), or pre-flight with headgear on, but goggles on top of the head and the mask (supplied) off. The fit of the arms and legs to the torso was quite good. The resin is also soft enough to cut pretty easily with a new #11 blade so limbs can be repositioned. I began by fiddling with the bombardier and navigator. Their both the same figure (bombardier), so I did some minor surgery to reposition arms and legs so they'd look slightly different, and gave the bombardier a wire cigarette. I'll use this method with all of the rest of the figures, determining where and how they'll be posed throughout the plane, all of them in casual pre-flight poses. Since I'm an airplane builder, THIS may turn out to be the most challenging part of the entire project! We'll see.... GIL TAG, Landrotten Highlander, TankBuster and 8 others 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phartycr0c Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 Lovely work GIl, I enjoyed the kit when i built mine. Your certainly doing it justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil Hodges Posted November 29, 2021 Author Share Posted November 29, 2021 Got the pilot, copilot, and top turret gunner into position this week.......used a "radio man" figure for the gunner, since seating him on the turret support foot plate behind them was the only practical way to have him there. Also, as with the first 2 figures, substantial repositioning of the arms was needed, in addition to some sanding on their backsides and shoulders to get the pilots to fit into such tight confines. I also actually heated and "twisted" the copilot's torso a bit; just enough to make it different from the pilot. Gil Rockie Yarwood, LSP_Kevin, MikeMaben and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigels modelling bench Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 Lovely work remodelling those figures Gil. So unusual to see the cockpit of a bomber crammed with bodies!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil Hodges Posted December 6, 2021 Author Share Posted December 6, 2021 The last 4 figures have been reposed and positioned! The 2 waist gunners, for which I used standing "top turret" figures needed considerable altering of the legs since the floors are uneven, as well as an arm reposed to help support themselves. The rearmost figure was also slightly bent at the waist to make him a bit stooped and fit in the lower ceiling farther back. The radio man and the other crew member were used almost as is. The 2 standing figures are held in place with the help of a bit of wire in the shoe bottom that anchors them to the floor. So.....next week I'll start priming them and cleaning them up to get ready to paint! Pics of the crew when they're done will be next! GIL Rockie Yarwood, Landrotten Highlander, easixpedro and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brahman104 Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 Nice one Gil! The figures certainly add a sense of just how cramped it could be inside. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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