Colorized period photos

[AlbertD]

Is there a way to tell if a picture is colorized or originally taken in color? Should we assume that all WW2 photos are colorized? This Birdcage Corsair photo shows the infamous pink primer on the worn paint area of the wing. According to Mr. Bells Corsair book this area could be either pink or zinc chromate depending on how early it is. I don't know how the photo colorization process works but isn't it an interpretation of the person doing it?

 

[AlbertD]

3 minutes ago, Jennings Heilig said:

There is no sure-fire way to tell, especially if the colorizing is well done.  That said, I’m pretty sure that’s a period color photo.

If that's the case and the colors are fairly accurate the blue is brighter than I thought it would be.

[LSP_K2]

There have been more than a few books printed in WWII color, like this example.

 

[LSP_Mike]

Yes, taken in original color on Kodachrome.

[AlbertD]

 

23 minutes ago, LSP_Mike said:

Yes, taken in original color on Kodachrome.

If i remember the old slide film days kodachrome tends to be a bit over saturated if that's the correct term. Don't they tend to be a little on the bright side? To me the blue on the above photo is a bit too blue. 

[LSP_Mike]

That may be a factor, but I thought the film was pretty color fast. I have a few of Ethells books, and try to account for the weather in each photo with regards to tones and shades.

[mpk]

You may want to find a copy of this book. There are a number of excellent colour photos and descriptions of camouflage. 

 

I don't know if it is in print. I paid a lot for it when it came out. 

 

 

 

 

[LSP_Mike]

Dale, looks like a nice book. I maybe have 10 books of WWII color photos and I'm sure there is some cross-over.

  All of the photos are an interesting look at a bygone era.

[denders]

On 12/22/2020 at 10:01 PM, AlbertD said:

If that's the case and the colors are fairly accurate the blue is brighter than I thought it would be.

That is a -1, so it's probably from the period where Navy aircraft were blue-gray over gray. This is from the Monogram Book #2.

 

 

[denders]

Yep, that's what I've found. I've got a 1/48 Ventura and a 3D digital Ventura that I've been working on and I find it hard to believe the 35189 that everyone seems to want to point to is correct.

 

Edit: To me it seems like too much green.

Edited December 24, 2020 by denders

[Dana Bell]

Hi All,

 

That's one of the first 306 Corsairs built by Vought - it still has the flat canopy and the Brownscope periscope mounted atop the windscreen.

 

The original image is a 4x5 Kodachrome tranny in the Rudy Arnold Collection at the National Air and Space Museum.  There are variations in the aircraft color between images - most variations due to the sun's position, but some variations seem to be the result of camera exposure and film processing and storage.  In all of the shots, the upper camouflage is bluer than what we would expect from Blue Gray.

 

I believe the paint was a rarely noted substutute for Blue Gray called Dark Blue, matched to the deck color prescribed for carriers.  In Jack Elliott's color chart above, Blue Gray #2 is probably actually Dark Blue.  (I know - we should never base a color identification on a color photo.  I'm hedging my bets here by use of the words "I believe.")

 

I've never found more than a fingernail sized chip of Dark Blue, but there are several 4x6 original paint chips of Blue Gray in the National Archives.  If anyone here ever wants to look at those chips, let me know and I'll be happy to share the record group, series, and box numbers so that you can look them up.  (There are copies down town and at College Park - and of course , everything depends on the Archives reopening one day!)

 

As for the chips showing through the wear on the wing (the original question), there are three posibilities for an early Birdcage:

 

- Yellow zinc chromate, if only a single primer coat was applied to the wing,

 

- pink or "salmon", if two primer coats were applied to the wing, or

 

- white, if the smoothing putty was applied over the primer or the primer was worn through to the putty.  Originally, the Corsair's leading edges were smoothed just like Mustang wings.  The factory smoothing was ended sometime during 1944.

 

Enjoy the model, whichever paint variation you chose, and best wishes for a Merry Christmas!

 

 

 

Dana

[Dana Bell]

Hi Jennings,

 

I think we've ALL been confusing Blue Gray and Dark Blue for many years.  For one thing, Dark Blue doesn't appear by name in any of the Navy specs or TOs.  There is also at least one order insisting that aircraft be painted Blue Gray and that the paint should match the color chip for Dark Blue - name's the same, but the color is totally different.  Additionally, most (nearly all) early applications of Blue Gray used field-mixed paints; Navy squadrons felt the color was too light anyway, so often mixed a darker shade to make up for the difference.  And finally, the blue value swings in contemporary color films leave us all wondering what we're looking at.  I've yet to see a contemporary color photo that I can point to and say that I'm definately looking at Dark Blue.

 

At least if we know we're looking for two different colors, we may start finding evidence to help decide what we're looking at...

 

Cheers,

 

 

Dana

[LSP_Ray]

To me it all just means if you get somewhere close, no one can prove you wrong.

[AlbertD]

21 minutes ago, LSP_Ray said:

To me it all just means if you get somewhere close, no one can prove you wrong.

That's kind of my thought. 

[LSP_Mike]

....except for that ONE guy that will follow you around the show...