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Thunda

3D printed N1K1-J

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On 9/7/2018 at 10:55 PM, Antonio Argudo said:

what's the name of that paradise? any link or website? simply amazing

cheers

Its Duncan of Jordanstone College of Art & Design, which is part of the University of Dundee, Scotland. Im the workshop manager for the college, so this is one of the facilities Im responsible for. https://www.dundee.ac.uk/djcad/

 

seiran01- Have you tried Sketchup? Its open source (free) and there are several plugins you can get that assist with 3D modelling- alot of our students use it. AlexM on here is modelling a gorgeous B26 Marauder using it.

 

dodgem37- we have various ways of scanning 3D, but its one area we could do with upgrading. One way we do larger objects is using a turntable and a DSLR camera- take a number of photos whilst moving the object around on the turntable, then the software stiches it together.

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@ Thunda,

 

An accurately designed 3D model is always a prerequisite for a good result, but we all need to keep in mind that no matter how accurate a 3D model design is, the final detail of the miniature depends on the quality of the 3D printer machine and material used. Maybe I am wrong, but I am afraid that these Ultimaker 3D printers and the recycled filament you are using there, are not the best option for a smooth 'n' nice finish on this 1/32 scale miniature. IMHO the layer lines will be clearly visible and it will take a lot of post-3D printing work to bring the miniature's surfaces to a satisfactory level of smoothness. The machines may be "just OK" for DIY projects and for reproducing sculptures addressing to forensic & medical students, but when it comes to scale modeling hobby the requirement for detail is different. Anyway, I 'll be following this one with great interest.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Nick_Karatzides

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3 minutes ago, thierry laurent said:

 

 

Actually Ray has purchased that set from Shapeways and is planning on reviewing it. As a bit of a mini review he did mention that it was fairly blocky, and there seemed to be some shape issues, including some with the spinner, but not sure what all is off. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, thierry laurent said:

 

 

While pretty close at 1/35th, Shapeways actually does  make a 1/32nd version of the same beaching dolly:

 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/HDW4FXMQJ/1-32-ijn-kawanishi-n1k1-kyofu-trailer?optionId=63966840&li=marketplace

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1 hour ago, Nick_Karatzides said:

@ Thunda,

 

An accurately designed 3D model is always a prerequisite for a good result, but we all need to keep in mind that no matter how accurate a 3D model design is, the final detail of the miniature depends on the quality of the 3D printer machine and material used. Maybe I am wrong, but I am afraid that these Ultimaker 3D printers and the recycled filament you are using there, are not the best option for a smooth 'n' nice finish on this 1/32 scale miniature. IMHO the layer lines will be clearly visible and it will take a lot of post-3D printing work to bring the miniature's surfaces to a satisfactory level of smoothness. The machines may be "just OK" for DIY projects and for reproducing sculptures addressing to forensic & medical students, but when it comes to scale modeling hobby the requirement for detail is different. Anyway, I 'll be following this one with great interest.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I think theres been some confusion- I didnt mean I was using the recycled filament for this job- just that we had recently bought the equipment to recycle- recycled filament would only be used for first prints and prototypes.

You are correct about layer lines being an issue- this is due to the size of the nozzle that the filament passes through. We use thick ones for prototypes (less passes required= faster print but lower quality) and really fine ones for a final piece. We have exceptionally fine ones for the medical prints that we do, and we'll be using those for the final print of this aircraft. Any ridges will be dealt with by using high build primer and/or Mr Surfacer.

Working on the cowling later today so hopefully have some updates.

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@ Thierry,

 

The products you mentioned are 3D printed with the cheapest low-quality polyamide nylon material which is completely not suitable for scale modeling purposes. The final finish is too grainy, the 3D printing layers are too visible and material cannot be easily handled & sanded. I would not recommend for scale modeling use. Ofcourse, you can always ask the seller to produce items with better-quality and smooth looking plastic material, but you should keep in mind that purchase prices will climb high (due better material high cost of production)...

 

 

@ Thunda,

 

If I am not mistaken, these Ultimaker 3D printers you have in lab come with three different nozzles:

  • A 0.80mm nozzle producing 600 micron layer,
  • A 0.40mm nozzle producing 200 microns layer and
  • A 0.25mm nozzle producing 150 microns layer.

Isn't that correct? If so, even if using the more 'fine" 0.25mm nozzle, cannot give layer results better than 150 microns thick... which is very visible and too far away from the 16 microns (or less) result other 3D printers can produce. As I already guessed, it will take a lot of post-3D printing work to bring the miniature's surfaces to a satisfactory level of smoothness and you also confirmed on this by saying that any ridges will be dealt with by using high build primer and/or Mr Surfacer. This means that no panel lines or rivets can be pre-designed and pre-produced, because the post-3D printing work including sandpaper & high build primer / Mr Surfacer would cover them and everything need to re-scribed from zero. Correct?

 

My friendly opinion (as long as the cost of 3D printing production can be justified as "expenses for educational purposes") is to try some high resolution 3D printing services instead of using the college lab machines - the cost may be higher, but the result will surely satisfy you. So, unless your Ultimaker 3D printers can produce a detail level like the following pictures, IF I were you I would use other 3D printer machines. If interested feel free to PM me to give you some data and let me propose some other material we also use for our miniature prototype production (material called VisiJet SR 200 and is used on high-precision & high-cost "ProJet HD 3000" machines - its a UV light cured acrylic polymer plastic material that can produce extremely thin details and layers as low as 16 microns only).

 

Anyway (as already said), whatever machine / material you decide, I 'll be following this one with great interest and I'll be glad to watch the progress of your nice 1/32 scale Kawanishi N1K1J model. :D

 

Regards,

Nick / Anyuta 3D scale models

 

https://s25.postimg.cc/yom5u2b3j/3_D_printed_tanks.jpg

 

FUD_sample_0004.jpg

 

Edited by Nick_Karatzides

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Some small progress on the cowling:

2ikcoqt.png

73cikn.png

rwndkk.png

As you can see, the scoop on the right has the lip rounded off, although still requires a small fillet to smooth it into the profile. It also needs the internal fillets modelling. Once we've sorted the scoops, we'll do the exhaust cutouts and seperate the cowling from the fuselage, and at that stage might do a test print of that section.

Im having trouble locating an engine- Ive got a Hasegawa N1K2 George and a Ki84 Frank kit, which both have a decent rendition of the Homare radial, but I dont want to make a perfectly good kit unbuildable by using the engine elsewhere, so Im going to look into making a resin cast of the cylinders and front casing. However, if anyone happens to have one kicking around, please let me know- happy to pay for one and would make life alot easier.

 

As for the discussion on the quality of print- Ill need to check with the technician down there, but its my understanding we have the ability to print 'super-fine' for medical purposes- it might not be with the Ultimaker machines- we have several different types of 3D printer, not just the ones in the photo- (theres a whole other room at the back of the workshop photo.) Either way, I expect there will be some sort of visible texture from the print, and as I said before, that will be dealt with with either high build primer or Mr Surfacer and then any small panel lines scribed by hand- was going to print the control surfaces seperately, but as theres some interest as to the print quality, Ill find out and report back..

Edited by Thunda

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Ok folks, so after bending the technicians ear, this is the situation regarding print quality. For the final quality print, we will be using the Ultimaker 3 printer. Here are the nozzles sizes and associated filaments:

0.25 mm nozzle: 150 - 60 micron
0.40 mm nozzle: 200 - 20 micron
0.80 mm nozzle: 600 - 20 micron
So best quality is 20 microns, and seeings as the human eye cannot detect anything smaller than 40 microns, Im quite happy with that. Heres a  photos of examples of a print done at what they consider 'medium' quality- unfortunately, the camera on my mobile doesnt do closeups well, but I can assure you, the lines were barely visible even at this quality:
x53js.jpg
 

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23 hours ago, Nick_Karatzides said:

@ Thierry,

 

The products you mentioned are 3D printed with the cheapest low-quality polyamide nylon material which is completely not suitable for scale modeling purposes. The final finish is too grainy, the 3D printing layers are too visible and material cannot be easily handled & sanded. I would not recommend for scale modeling use. Ofcourse, you can always ask the seller to produce items with better-quality and smooth looking plastic material, but you should keep in mind that purchase prices will climb high (due better material high cost of production)...

 

Nick is right. The Rex conversion set is quite rough and will require quite a bit of sanding to get a smooth texture. Panel lines are ginormous, some in the wrong places and others missing. Shape of nose cone is off, and cooling flaps on cowling are not correct. I am trying to work with the designer to make some corrections, as well as offering a smoother, higher quality, finish.

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'. . . and cooling flaps on cowling are not correct.'

I don't know what the cooling flaps look like, but there were two types.  One type was a single flap as I am doing for my build.  The second type has two flaps.

 

One can see the two part flap in this drawing:

004_zps9gmpomib.jpg

 

Two type in photograph on right

DSCN6021_zpsn46wjqsq.jpg

 

Single type flap here:

Color%20I_zpsohaiwbsh.jpg

 

Sincerely,

Mark

 

 

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