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Guest Maxim

Kittyhawk 1/35 Seahawk!

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I think the reasons many manufacturers use recessed dimples instead of raised rivets are:

 

1. Many modelers prefer recessed detail as it's easier to restore after sanding and filling. Fill or wipe out a recessed rivet hole, and it's fairly easy to just drill a replacement, and finding a correct sized bit to match the remaining rivet holes is pretty easy. A bit harder to replace a raised rivet and make it look like all the others.

 

2. A lot of modelers like the artistic look with washes to emphasize recessed details, whether it's realistic or not.

 

To be honest, I think a lot of modelers prefer recessed details, even if it's technically inaccurate, and I think the model companies are catering to that.

 

Seems like we are already slagging a kit that doesn't yet exist (hello Trumpeter!). Instead of being happy that we are getting a big scale Seahawk, people are whining about it being 1/35 scale instead of 1/32 (if it were 1/32, others would whine about it being a different size than their Academy kits), whining about the possibility of the kit not having raised rivets (although others would whine about having to replace ones lost during sanding as they do on Apache and other kits), and talking about this “Oliver†guy, who I'm not sure what his actual involvement is in this upcoming kit. You can't make everyone happy.

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Hmmmm.... my limited experience with the subject airframe tells me that MOST of the rivets on the UH-60 series are universal head (aka raised) rivets and should not be dimpled into the skin of the model.  And, with my limited experience with injection molding, one would also think it would be easier to "dimple" a tiny hole in the tool rather than excavate a raised bump in the same too to render recessed rivets where they don't exist on the real critter.  Revell did it for years and years...we sanded and restored raised details the best we knew how...sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.

Edited by Juggernut

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Then the production folks decide (for whatever reason) to replace the prominent raised rivets which cover both these helos with hundreds of indented divots.   In my view, you might as well just go back to raised panel lines while you are at it.  To me, it completely ruins the surface texture on these helos.  

I personally prefer the rivets to be recessed.  Replication not duplication.  It you have to sand a panel line you will obliterate the raised rivet detail and it is a pain in the ass to replace.  I think if you do it right the recessed rivets look great and look like raised rivets.  See pictures below.

 

1. Many modelers prefer recessed detail as it's easier to restore after sanding and filling. Fill or wipe out a recessed rivet hole, and it's fairly easy to just drill a replacement, and finding a correct sized bit to match the remaining rivet holes is pretty easy. A bit harder to replace a raised rivet and make it look like all the others.

 

2. A lot of modelers like the artistic look with washes to emphasize recessed details, whether it's realistic or not.

 

To be honest, I think a lot of modelers prefer recessed details, even if it's technically inaccurate, and I think the model companies are catering to that.  You can't make everyone happy.

What Dave said.

 

I think they work out quite nicely.  These are all Kitty Hawk models.

Floyd

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Seems like we are already slagging a kit that doesn't yet exist (hello Trumpeter!). Instead of being happy that we are getting a big scale Seahawk, people are whining about it being 1/35 scale instead of 1/32 (if it were 1/32, others would whine about it being a different size than their Academy kits), whining about the possibility of the kit not having raised rivets (although others would whine about having to replace ones lost during sanding as they do on Apache and other kits), and talking about this “Oliver†guy, who I'm not sure what his actual involvement is in this upcoming kit. You can't make everyone happy.

 

I'm not sure if I missed something or if you're referring to a separate thread about the kit, but I haven't seen anything that would appear to be 'slagging' in this particular thread. One of the main points has been the outstanding research of the subjects vs. the execution of them. Oliver was only mentioned because of Shawn's post (#8) where it was hoped KH sought his help with details. A couple of us just mentioned that he doesn't always concern himself with being technically accurate in his scratch building, therefore may not be person to go to regarding technical and/or accurate details of any particular airframe. He is an outstanding modeler and craftsman that goes under the screen name of shark64 here and on ARC.

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I personally prefer the rivets to be recessed.  Replication not duplication.  It you have to sand a panel line you will obliterate the raised rivet detail and it is a pain in the ass to replace.  I think if you do it right the recessed rivets look great and look like raised rivets.  See pictures below.

 

 

I totally disagree. If rivets are raised on the real a/c, they should be raised on the model as well. I's very easy to replace raised rivets in small areas where you have sanded them away; it's a huge pain in the ass, time consuming and expensive to close all those incorrect recessed rivets and to replace them with raised rivet decals.  

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I totally disagree. If rivets are raised on the real a/c, they should be raised on the model as well. I's very easy to replace raised rivets in small areas where you have sanded them away; it's a huge pain in the ass, time consuming and expensive to close all those incorrect recessed rivets and to replace them with raised rivet decals.  

 

Why bother when the recessed ones replicate the real thing?  I completely disagree that it is easy to replace raised rivets.  Even using Archer rivets its not easy and certainly not cheap.  I've never been able to get a correct line of rivets that are consistently separated and consistently the same size.  I think this job is beyond the average modeler.  Certainly beyond this average modeler.  To each his own.

Floyd

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Why bother when the recessed ones replicate the real thing?  

But that's just it - they don't replicate the real thing.  By that logic, raised panel lines are an acceptable substitute for recessed ones.

 

On modern jets, rivets are pretty flush but on helos (at least the UH-1 and UH-60's I've been around), they are much more pronounced and become a very significant feature.  If the kit manufacturer's are taking artistic license, just have them ignore the rivets entirely.  It's funny - Dragon was able to nicely replicate raised rivets on their OH-6A / Littlebird series quite well and over all the great builds I've seen in the last 20 years, I didn't hear any crying about how impossible it was to restore some sanded off rivets.  

 

In the end, as you noted, it's personal preference and KH has made it clear that they'll do whatever they see fit (which is entirely their prerogative).  All that being said,  I'm sure with all the help that you are providing it's going to be a really nice kit, regardless of the rivet issue.  I personally am hoping that we get a Bravo model Seahawk.  That cold war helo is my favorite naval variant.  

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But that's just it - they don't replicate the real thing.  By that logic, raised panel lines are an acceptable substitute for recessed ones.

 

On modern jets, rivets are pretty flush but on helos (at least the UH-1 and UH-60's I've been around), they are much more pronounced and become a very significant feature.  If the kit manufacturer's are taking artistic license, just have them ignore the rivets entirely.  It's funny - Dragon was able to nicely replicate raised rivets on their OH-6A / Littlebird series quite well and over all the great builds I've seen in the last 20 years, I didn't hear any crying about how impossible it was to restore some sanded off rivets.  

 

In the end, as you noted, it's personal preference and KH has made it clear that they'll do whatever they see fit (which is entirely their prerogative).  All that being said,  I'm sure with all the help that you are providing it's going to be a really nice kit, regardless of the rivet issue.  I personally am hoping that we get a Bravo model Seahawk.  That cold war helo is my favorite naval variant.  

 

Represent not replicate.  Typo while at work on my part.  I think you'll see all the Seahawks.  But that isn't my call.  I just provide information

Floyd

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Guest Smitty44

My .02?

 

I don't do the macro photos like some here do. Those guys probably want raised rivets with everything exact as it came from the Sikorsky showroom floor. I get it and I respect that.

 

 

Me, I'm an 18 incher to 2 footer. I see a representation of an aircraft that strikes my eyes and brain as being "right".

 

 

Personally, I'd pass on a model covered with raised details at join lines where you just know you'll be sanding it off and redoing it.

 

Unless, of course, its an HPH DC-3.

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Guest Maxim

35 or 32 scale, raised or recessed rivets, just a matter of personal taste. I see no slagging off about this kit just different opinions. I'd much prefer a 32 scale Seahawk but I'm just grateful KH are producing one and will take it in 35 scale. I really wish they would upscale the Huey they did in 48 scale to 32/35 scale. What a gem of a kit that is. If Floyd is involved in the project it will be as accurate as they can get it.

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