1/32nd Focke-Wulf Triebflügel

[Mal_Belford]

Brian.....

 

 

This is madness and i love this.......you shure do things in a creative way i like very very much, oh yes its real cool to...

 

/Mal

[spacewolf]

Looking awesome Brian, the video looks great. I think the idea with the model RR circit to have adjustable speed is really good. This is proving to be a pain but it's going to be so worth it when it's done. Cheering you on !!

 

 

Vaughn

[Out2gtcha]

Thanks guys.  This is turning into WAY more than I bargained for. At some point you either have to completely suck it up and start over when failure occurs, or concede, cut your losses and move on...................

 

 

I AM at that point.  *SIGH*  I did get a 0-14v adjustable train transformer that may just work perfect. However, going to the Omacon show at the SAC headquarters yesterday, some of my friends (and brother) pointed out something I never thought of:

 

How often do you see plug in powered models on the contest stand next to normal ones.............not that often, mainly Ive discovered because of:

 

A. - Different contests have different rules on power - such as the NATS, you need more than a month of notice to them for power

B. - Not all contests even have plug in/wall power available

 

The bottom line is, if I DID have the Triebflugel done for this show, (similar to other shows) I would have had to put it on a WAY back table in the corner, that had jsut about the only direct access to power, as the show coordinators were not willing to run a giant home-run power cord all the way back to the outlet across the room.

 

 Show coordinators even indicated it was not a guarantee that the judges would even remember/see it, if the model was on a table other than the one that contained the rest of the category entrants.

 

So..................for as good of a solution as I thought it could be, it just will NOT be practical for shows and contests, where the Trib would get, and need exposure to people seeing it on the table with other entrants from its same category.

 

 

So I moved on to try to get a power source with the right voltage, but with plenty of capacity................I got a couple of 6v "lantern" batteries, and hooked them up parallel, to maintain the 6v, but give me plenty of milliamps for grunt

 

 

Well that apparently was TOO many amps, as when I hooked them up, it spun the motor at the right speed, by itself..............then I hooded it up to the motor and drive, and after about 20- 40 seconds the motor started smoking.....................

 

So I QUICKLY shut it down  and took one of the lantern batteries out of the mix and hooked it up with just one battery.

 

Same result, the motor started smoking again after only about 15-30 seconds.

 

 

 

Boo.  The only power source so far that spun things was 4 AAs but after only about 60 seconds the drain is so great the batteries start to poop out.

 

I just dont think the motor was designed to handle very much resistance.  7v is no problem but the mini R/C car its designed for really is QUITE small, and has almost no load to it.

This thing has to spin a chunk of solid aluminum, a steel plate, 4 steel washers, and 3 solid steel threaded rods with resin chunks at each end..................and I dont even have the solid resin wings on yet. 

 

Well this project is teetering on becoming a "powered by hand" project instead of an electric powered one, as I just dont have it in me to redesign the WHOLE thing over again.

Im going to take the motor out, and take it to the train store with me this week, to see if they have a motor of the same size, that maybe can take more load..............as I have to figure the motors used in even HO scale, have to be able to take the "full power" of the transformer @ almost 12v AND be able to stand the load of pushing a loco-motive up the little track hills whilst pulling 10-20 or more cars..................

 

So Im thinking maybe they might have a motor that is more suited to my needs, as this little one is just NOT up to the task i need it to be.

 

 

Other than that, I DID get the rear fuse cut in half to accept the forward backbone mount.

You can see here, how I cut the fuse in the appropriate place, and inserted a styrene disk that will aid in stabilizing the brass tube that holds the stainless steel backbone. You can also see the thin styrene disk I used between the aluminum center section and the resin fuse. This will keep the correct/small/even space needed for the aluminum section to spin right next to the resin, and not warble or  grind against the resin :

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can see I just JB Welded the piece on in the middle, and will later re-assemble, and fill smooth the area. This will give me room for the motor (once I grind things out) or, if not powered and will just spin by hand, I can just assemble once Im ready w/no grinding necessary:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can see here the brass outer tube now securely glued in the fuse, ready for the back half to be glued on, and ready to accept the motor if I need it:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Im quite frustrated ATM, and will need to do some checking this week to see if I can make the motorization work, or if I will just go with a manual spinning center section.

 

Cheers,

 

 

 

[Shawn M]

Sounds like its pulling too may AMP's at start up.

What if you spin it up by hand then kick the power on, this would reduce the huge initial AMP load to start the rotor spinning.

 

[Guest Peterpools]

Brian

Sure hope our model railroading brothers can help out. Most of the better motors in model railroading are can motors.

Good luck

Peter

[fastzx]

Since you will be mounting it to a base why don't you look into powering it with a transformer?

Rig it like the sci-fy studio scale models.

You can run the wires up the mounting rod.

 

Jon

[LSP_Kevin]

Since you will be mounting it to a base why don't you look into powering it with a transformer?

Rig it like the sci-fy studio scale models.

You can run the wires up the mounting rod.

 

Jon

 

Jon, you didn't read Brian's post? He explains the ins and outs of that there.

 

Kev

[fastzx]

Sorry Kevin must have missed that.

Too... Many... Words... Arrrgghh.

[fastzx]

Ok sorry for that.

 

I know you have a lot invested in your bearing and pulley but

Just a thought here....and that is all.

The gearing looks reversed as it exists now

I propose that instead the driving gear or pulley attached to to motor should be the larger diameter and the pulley or gear on the rotating wings should be smaller in gearing or diameter.

That way the motor (with larger diameter gear) can rotate at a lower RPM yet "overdrive" the smaller gear on the center wing section.

That change would seem to me to generate more effect for less power drain.

Just a thought.

 

Jon

[brahman104]

Hi Brian,

 

    I've been away for a week or so and haven't been able to keep up with your build of late. I can understand your frustrations with the rotation issue,  as there is quite a lot of mass to try and get moving. I believe once it is going it won't take much to keep it that way. Have you looked into "stepper" style motors as an alternative? They are the ones found in things like servos and printers; there are many and varied types and all shapes and sizes. Best of all, by their nature, they can produce a large amount of torque at low RPM and can be set up to vary their speed accordingly by some simple circuitry to go from stopped, to accelerate, to steady state, then to stop, all without drawing a great deal of power. Most of your places (it's radio shack in the US isn't it?) or the like should be able to supply a simple stepper controller which shouldn't be hard to construct, even with something like a rotary switch to control the speed. 

 

Just my two cents, but I think they would be ideal in your situation….

 

Craig

 

Cheers, Craig

[Jamme]

Wow Brian.

Completely missed this one.

Fantastic, I like it very much.

Cheers,

Jamme

[Out2gtcha]

Thanks for looking in on me guys.  All are good ideas, I had never thought about the stepper/servo motor idea. Ill have to look into that one as well.
 
Jon, as to reversing the sizes of driving VS spinning pulleys, that was in fact my initial idea, as you are correct, that would be the ideal situation, as it would spin the center section at a much slower speed and would have put much less stress/torque on the motor itself.
 
However, if you look at the design of the model, there is an unfortunate problem..................room.
 
If you look at a little sketch I made you can see the problem. If you look at where the motor sits (#1) VS where the pulley attached to the spinning section is (#2) you can see that there is no room for a larger pulley other than the smaller drive pulley mounted on the motor itself (#3). I would love to swap the pulleys and get less torque/stress, and spin the center section slower, but there just is no room for a larger pulley on the motor, as anything bigger than the smaller pulley currently on now would not clear the inside of the fuselage (drawing is not to scale but gives you an idea of general size/shape). As it sits with the smaller pulley on, if I do get the motor to work, I will still have to grind and carve a space for the motor itself, let alone anything that stuck up above it:

The main issue here I think is the motor itself. The micro R/C motor I am using is designed for a max of 7.4v but hardly any load nor amps. Most every one of the train transformers I have seen or used, seems to be able to push up to 10 - 14v (unknown what they put out in milliamps). Also, being in a little train, and having to go up hills carrying 10, 20 or more cars, I have to believe they were made for more of a load than the motor Im using now. Ive also been thinking about using the train transformer, then plugging it into an AC power converter that had alligator style clips on it instead of say a cigarette lighter plug, that I could then just clip onto a 12v car battery that I bring with me to the show.

I think my next step will be a stop to the train shop to see if they have a motor that can cope with more volts, and higher load/amps. I would need to re-design a bit of the motor mount, but at this point its much less of a waste than scrapping the whole motorized part of this build.

 

Cheers,

[TaffyMan]

Loving this Brian - I'm rooting for you and i'm sure you'll get it in the end. Don't give up the good fight

 

Just love the madness of it so keep pushing it - you never know - Bigger engine - More Power it might fly in the end How Coooooool would that be! 

 

Happy Days - Taff

[dodgem37]

Brian,

Any motor heat build-up to be concerned about?

 

Sincerely,

Mark

[Azgaron]

Excellent work so far with this unusal kit! Nice with the Hydra decals supplied with the kit!

 

HÃ¥kan