mc65 Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 as regards the number of crew members, I read, I think in the book "ace if diamonds", that even when the third member was not essential, the crews insisted on having him with them in the transitions from one type to another of the same plane, or even on other planes designed as two-seaters, such as the He219. it was not a technical question but a human one, not wanting to disperse the small human group that had been created. the third man in fact would have been destined for other non-flight jobs. monthebiff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmayhew Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 Hi guys, Per John Vasco in his ‘An Illustrated Study’ book, the Bordfunker (radio operator) had two seats, but the crew complement was definitely two, not three. The DML kit is indeed accurate in its seat depiction. Coming at it from a different angle, I have the Luftwaffe Crash Archive set of books which details every Luftwaffe plane downed on UK soil (or off our coasts)… the 110 Cs Ds and Es downed all show 2 crew. Maybe the the third crewman was the lucky charm each flight? Admittedly it was a very quick flick through but but I couldn’t find data on the Fs. Interested to see pictures of non-Gs with 3 man crew… Anyway, I guess it’s all moot unless you are putting a 1/32 third crewman in there lol Cheers Nick monthebiff and IainM 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozart Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 (edited) This is an extract from Peter Hinchliffe's book "Ace of Diamonds", a biography of Heinz Wolfgang Schnaufer. The first time Willem Gansler flew with Schnaufer and Rumpelhardt was 23 September 1943; it's interesting that Gansler's role is described, not as a rear gunner (I've read that Schanufer had the rear machine guns removed to decrease weight and therefore increase speed but never seen concrete evidence) but as an extra pair of eyes. I think at this time in his career he was flying a Bf110F, but I can't be certain.....could have been a converted G2. Sorry for the thread drift Andy! Edited May 10, 2022 by mozart Out2gtcha, monthebiff, nmayhew and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monthebiff Posted May 10, 2022 Author Share Posted May 10, 2022 14 minutes ago, mozart said: This is an extract from Peter Hinchliffe's book "Ace of Diamonds", a biography of Heinz Wolfgang Schnaufer. The first time Willem Gansler flew with Schnaufer and Rumpelhardt was 23 September 1943; it's interesting that Gansler's role is described, not as a rear gunner (I've read that Schanufer had the rear machine guns removed to decrease weight and therefore increase speed but never seen concrete evidence) but as an extra pair of eyes. I think at this time in his career he was flying a Bf110F, but I can't be certain.....could have been a converted G2. Sorry for the thread drift Andy! Drift away chaps, all very interesting stuff! Regards. Andy IainM, mozart, Fanes and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMaben Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 (edited) PROOF !!! Edited May 11, 2022 by MikeMaben IainM, nmayhew, monthebiff and 4 others 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmayhew Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 7 hours ago, MikeMaben said: PROOF !!! Nice pic what mark is this? with that armament presumably F onwards, but that is supposition nothing less. I will still point to the crash data: I find it unbelievable that no C, D or E with 3 crew was shot down - that third guy was the lucky charm every single flight lol Now if 3 crew were only in Dackelbuch Ds or Fs and beyond, fair enough; we need John Vasco but I don’t know he posts on forums anymore? I’ll try to ask on the Luftwaffe Research Group, but may take a while. Great pic though - very atmospheric. kind regards Nick mozart and MikeMaben 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozart Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 (edited) It has two aerial wires going to the mast, so certainly a G, but possibly an F, I'll have to research when and why the second wire was introduced. It does however appear to have the remote control unit on the port cockpit side which was associated with the underbelly circular loop aerial, which is not on G models. Edited May 11, 2022 by mozart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainM Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 12 hours ago, nmayhew said: Nice pic what mark is this? with that armament presumably F onwards, but that is supposition nothing less. I will still point to the crash data: I find it unbelievable that no C, D or E with 3 crew was shot down - that third guy was the lucky charm every single flight lol Now if 3 crew were only in Dackelbuch Ds or Fs and beyond, fair enough; we need John Vasco but I don’t know he posts on forums anymore? I’ll try to ask on the Luftwaffe Research Group, but may take a while. Great pic though - very atmospheric. kind regards Nick 11 hours ago, mozart said: It has two aerial wires going to the mast, so certainly a G, but possibly an F, I'll have to research when and why the second wire was introduced. It does however appear to have the remote control unit on the port cockpit side which was associated with the underbelly circular loop aerial, which is not on G models. @nmayhew Yes, it's a pity that John Vasco isn't on these forums! He'd help to sort his out! I do remember that when I was doing my Dragon C-7 to C-3 conversion, I posted that on either the FB Night Fighters or 1/32 scale a/c pages - and he chipped in! And then he helped me along with the main and more obscure changes that I needed to make...veritable rabbit hole! Anyway, on page 139 of his book, he has a picture of an E-3 with the dual aerial leads - but that was changed to single at the C-1 to C-2 variant, when they changed from the FuG 111 U to the FuG X .....more questions that perhaps only the guys who flew that a/c would have been able to answer... @mozart In my VERY limited knowledge I'd put that as an F, with some other field-fitted radio equipment that required that extra lead. Reason for that is I'm looking at the canopy glazing - as far as I'm aware the G's had the fixed rear canopy over the rear armament, with the opening portion just behind that. F's IMO were the last of the line to have the rear cockpit opening where the rear MG's were. So as far as I'm aware, if it was a G, there would be no way that crewman could have been standing there? monthebiff, mozart and nmayhew 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monthebiff Posted May 11, 2022 Author Share Posted May 11, 2022 Interesting picture this one and without the crew members moving out of the way my guess is it would be an F as Iain alludes to as well. Equally it could be a staged picture of an earlyish G with the rear section of the canopy removed for something or other. Regards. Andy IainM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMaben Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 It's from an issue of 'Luftwaffe Im Focus" No.4 2004. It's a C-5 5D+JL Russia summer of '41. It later was one of about 50 C-5s and E-3s that were modified with the rearward facing periscope and side guns. From 3.(F)/31 which had a 'crab' emblem. chukw, monthebiff and Rockie Yarwood 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMaben Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 2 wires ... Check out this 109 style insulator on the fuselage ... Early with unpainted prop blades ... D with one unpainted blade ?? hth TAG, HB252, Rockie Yarwood and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monthebiff Posted May 12, 2022 Author Share Posted May 12, 2022 Some excellent shots there Mile and definitely a case of check your references when choosing your subject matter. Regards. Andy MikeMaben 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monthebiff Posted May 16, 2022 Author Share Posted May 16, 2022 Some more progress over the weekend, first up I've fitted the upper cockpit panel. Also have both wings completed over the weekend And with the wings complete I turned my attention back to the 900litre drop tanks. I touched on these earlier in the build but put them to one side til the wings where sorted. I have the Profimodeller set as the Dragon supplied items are wrongly shaped in many ways but the Profimodeller set has its own problems as well. The first problem is a big rough casting plug and lots of clean up needed around it The rough nose section was cleaned up and then HpH 2 part resin was used as filler and then the nose was sanded smooth. I then replaced the straps around the tank with plastic stock and then added brass wire with plastic card wrapped around for the pylons as,I felt the Profimodeller etched set was a little 2D and not really close to the images I have of these tanks Followed by a test fit to the wing Happy so far and just need to finish the details and add the tail fin and the its one down and one to go! Regards. Andy N.H.71, mozart, LSP_Kevin and 9 others 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Kevin Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 Nice progress, Andy! Kev monthebiff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainM Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 That great work on those support braces! Def WAY better than the brass offerings!!! Looks a treat! monthebiff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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