Guest Vincent Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Amazing that the germans invented a new color and did not know about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBrown Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) RLM 76 evolved from a light turquoise blue gray to the extremely pale shade known as Weissblau. The early version of RLM 76 used cobalt blue pigment in its composition. Subsequently, an inferior ultramarine pigment known as Blau 34904 was substituted, resulting in the Weissblau formulation. Weissblau was satisfactory when used in the offensive camouflage scheme designed to conceal the aircraft in the air. However, Weissblau would severely compromise a defensive scheme designed to conceal the aircraft on the ground. In the later stages of the war we find evidence, in the form photographs and relics, for the employment of pastel green and tan shades in place of Weissblau. Perhaps the pastel shades were a response to the unsuitability of Weissblau in the then current tactical situation. The change in hue would not necessitate a change in nomenclature. Remember RLM 65, 78, 79 all experienced significant color changes, as a result of tactical experience, during their brief existence. Edited January 12, 2019 by RBrown D.B. Andrus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggernut Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 This stuff is fascinating... You guys have really done the work haven't you? I haven't been into Luftwaffe stuff a lot in these past 8 or 10 years but I still have a few 109's in the stash and at least one of them is a later war aircraft. Now, where did I put that notebook? Oh nevermind, I'll just copy/paste the content into a Word document I can print and file... LOL . The last time I was involved in color of later war Luftwaffe aircraft, I was building the Fw190D-9, Blue 12 from 6/JG2 using that pastel green color.... I also remember using RLM 76 on the tops of the wings as a camouflage color based on a color photograph I saw in the Monogram Publishing book on the 190D. Peeps have said it's supposed to be RLM 77 but I'll be damned if my eyes didn't see (and still do, I just looked at the photo) RLM 76. I may be totally wrong and if so, that's fine but I calls em as I sees em . I also remember having a very brief discussion with Jerry about the underside RLM75? color and what area it covered based on the very vague shots of the underside of that aircraft (at least the ones I knew of at that time). I deviated from what was on the EagleCals sheet a little in that respect but if nobody knew the exact aircraft I was talking about, they'd not know one way or the other. Now, back to my seat and I'll thank my neighbor for holding my popcorn while I spoke.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Mike Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 This an informative thread, so while there may not be agreement regarding technical points, let's avoid snarky comments which add nothing. No one is such an expert that they cannot learn more. D.B. Andrus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vincent Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) On 1/12/2019 at 9:11 PM, RBrown said: RLM 76 evolved from a light turquoise blue gray to the extremely pale shade known as Weissblau. The early version of RLM 76 used cobalt blue pigment in its composition. Subsequently, an inferior ultramarine pigment known as Blau 34904 was substituted, resulting in the Weissblau formulation. Weissblau was satisfactory when used in the offensive camouflage scheme designed to conceal the aircraft in the air. However, Weissblau would severely compromise a defensive scheme designed to conceal the aircraft on the ground. In the later stages of the war we find evidence, in the form photographs and relics, for the employment of pastel green and tan shades in place of Weissblau. Perhaps the pastel shades were a response to the unsuitability of Weissblau in the then current tactical situation. The change in hue would not necessitate a change in nomenclature. Remember RLM 65, 78, 79 all experienced significant color changes, as a result of tactical experience, during their brief existence. Removed contribution Edited February 2, 2019 by Vincent/MDC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Mike Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 I am thinking the color change or shift as it were, may have been due to the thickness of the layer of paint applied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.B. Andrus Posted January 12, 2019 Author Share Posted January 12, 2019 I'm very interested in any new documentation of a light green that Eagle Editions might publish in the upcoming book authored by ____?____. D.B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vincent Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) Removed contribution Edited February 2, 2019 by Vincent/MDC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vincent Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) On 1/13/2019 at 12:03 AM, Jennings Heilig said: Just playing devil's advocate here (I have no dog in the fight) - knowing how anal-retentive we Germans are, I find it somewhat hard to believe that they wouldn't have invented a new designation for what was essentially a new color, and just kept calling something that looked radically different "RLM 76". Not saying it didn't happen, but Germans are nothing if not sticklers for that kind of detail. You vill follow za rules! Removed contribution Edited February 2, 2019 by Vincent/MDC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark P Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 FWIW, I have seen different cockpit components placed side by side, both painted in RLM 66, that do not match the same. Mark Proulx D.B. Andrus, mozart and LSP_K2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Ray Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Are we not arguing semantics on the light blue vs light greenish-brown? Whether or not it was an unintended color or intended change, it does not change the fact that some late war aircraft painted with the new formulation/paint would have the 'new' color and it would be correct to model them that way. And different factories, tasked with building some sub assemblies. such as wings, could possibly provide different variations of 76 or green depending on when they ran out of the older formulation and how they mixed the paint. Am I not right? MikeMaben and LSP_K2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John1 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 I'm actually more interested in finding specifics on the supposed use of RLM77 primer (a very light grey) as a primary camouflage color on some very late-war German aircraft. I've seen some pretty convincing pics and color profiles by people that seem to have a good handle on this. Makes for a pretty interesting scheme. It does seem to contradict the German's use of greens to conceal the aircraft while it's on the ground. To confuse the issue further, for all I know the supposed RLM77 could possible just be another off-spec variation of RLM76? The profile above was taken from a very interesting reference article over on HS. If anyone thinks I should not have reposted this, just let me know and I'll take it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Crandall Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 One of the landing gear legs on the D-9"Black 8" that was pulled out of Lake Schwerin in Germany was painted with a light gray FS 26373 with doesn't quite match up with published chips of RLM 77. We were able to examine it close up not long after it came out of the water. The other leg was standard RLM 02. Warnecke and Böhm and others had no explanation for this color. One comment was 77 was only intended as a markings color as was not manufactured in quantity. Who knows?. The big problem is They were ordered to destroy documents regarding color so we have almost nothing on late war colors which leaves with a lot of speculation. One thing for sure is this late light green color is not light blue. There is a color film that shows D-13 engine cowlings on railway cars that are painting with RLM 75, RLM 76 and light green together. However there is some speculation that light green is the final version of RLM 76. But W and B says no that the RLM did not allow more than one color to have the same designation, some variation yes, but not a different color. In other words RLM 76 light blue could not be called light green. Sadly we have no known documentation either way. Mark Proulx has seen our collection and has some samples. D.B. Andrus, We are not the publishers of this book in the works and it's probably a long ways off. 109 and LSP_K2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.B. Andrus Posted January 13, 2019 Author Share Posted January 13, 2019 Sorry for the wrong attribution, Jerry. Cheers, D.B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_K2 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Fascinating topic. Some time back I reviewed this publication that delves into the RLM 77 area. I found it quite interesting. How accurate it may be, I do not know. D.B. Andrus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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