Wouter Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 (edited) Question - I'm considering picking up some CMK BMW003 jet engines which they make in resin for the he162. These were the original intended engines for the Horten - does anyone know how these compare in size to the Jumos in case modifications of the kit may be needed? I was pondering resin jumos but none exist in 1/32 scale. Trumpeter Jumo engines aren't any better engineered. Pulls out reference: the BMW 003 had a diameter of 0,6 m. The Horten brothers build the V2 version to accomodate this engine. When delivery was delayed they turned to Junkers for a possible delivery of the Jumo 004. When it finaly arrived it turned out to be much larger, 0,8 m. To accomodate the larger engine, the wing root profile increased by as much as 2.3%. Also the center section was enlarged, but this was probably done anyway to make room for the cannon installation. During development the geometry e=and structure of the center section changed at least four times in the V2. The V3 version (which the kit is modelled after) is made with the Jumo 004 as standard engine. Short answer, historicaly no, you can't just switch the engines without any major surgery if you want a accurate model. But otherwise it was still an aircraft in development, so why not. cheers Edited August 21, 2014 by Wouter Thomas Lund, Wurzacher, daHeld and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seiran01 Posted August 19, 2014 Author Share Posted August 19, 2014 Useful info, thank you! It's surprising to me that there are no resin jumos out there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Mike Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 I'd say that because of the unavaiable smaller engine, the brothers realized they would have to change the shape of the nacelles pretty drastically, and once it was done, that was it. The bigger engine would be it for me, but I'm watching this space.... daHeld 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Wasn't that interested in getting one of these - but your build is rapidly changing that view Mike! Excellent... Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bellis Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I'd say that because of the unavaiable smaller engine, the brothers realized they would have to change the shape of the nacelles pretty drastically, and once it was done, that was it. That is correct according to "Horten Ho 229 Spirit of Thuringia" by Shepelev & Ottens. In fact, the center section was first redesigned to accept the larger Jumo 004 based on the bare housing mock-ups sent to them by Junkers, and then they had to redesign everything yet again once they had the actual engines to enable installing the Jumos with all of the accessories that were on them (but were not on the mock-ups). Purely speculative, but it probably would have been possible to install BMW 003s after the redesign. but, there's no mention of any desire or plans to do that that in the book. HTH, D daHeld 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out2gtcha Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 That is correct according to "Horten Ho 229 Spirit of Thuringia" by Shepelev & Ottens. Im not much of a reference/book guy at all, but I have heard K2 and others rave about that book. Il definitely be getting at least 1 copy of the ZM Horten, and wouldnt mind picking up a copy of the Spirit of Thuringia as well, but have no clue on pricing of the book nor what I should be paying............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bellis Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Im not much of a reference/book guy at all, but I have heard K2 and others rave about that book. Il definitely be getting at least 1 copy of the ZM Horten, and wouldnt mind picking up a copy of the Spirit of Thuringia as well, but have no clue on pricing of the book nor what I should be paying............... Bought mine new for about $35 about 7 months ago. Now, they are sold out and often go for several hundred dollars. Shop around, though, and you might get lucky... D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wouter Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 What? Never knew, but I bought mine also about six months ago, for about €40,-. Didn't realize it was a reissue. But as it turns out this reissue is already sold out again. Now prices start at 200gbp and go as high as $1500. That's just insane... Well glad I picked it up in time! daHeld and D Bellis 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seiran01 Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 man oh man, that book price is just insane. Forging ahead with the kit engines, i took a comp day to catch up on life and unwind before another 5 days away from home. Updates to come! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seiran01 Posted September 7, 2014 Author Share Posted September 7, 2014 I've been dabbling with small bits and pieces of the horten and basically procrastinating on anything but the engines while putty dries... I did realize that NASM has some absolutely superb photos of the Ho229 on their website at http://airandspace.si.edu/collections/artifact.cfm?id=A19600324000 - all of the pics can be clicked to access larger versions and link to extremely large versions of the photos which will be perfect for any of you who really want a detailed look at the horten fuselage in it's current condition. Definitely check it out! daHeld 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seiran01 Posted September 7, 2014 Author Share Posted September 7, 2014 Changing gears, I've started on the 2nd wing - this is the one that will be see through and unpainted wood/metal. The lower wing will be finished as plywood, possibly with Uschi wood grain decals on the exterior. Interior of this has been hand painted, roughly following external panel lines, in oils over a base coat of Tamiya Deck Tan. Any raised bits on the inner wing are going to be painted RLM02 and aluminum, as appropriate, which will be done following a clear coat with a hint of clear orange added in. While a lot of this will be hidden once the spars and fuel tanks have been added, pieces will be visible through the internal detail. Should be a good looking display! XOPCT, Chris Wimmer, Uncarina and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattlow Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 I haven't heard very good reports of the CMK BMW 003. The mega build of the Revell He 162 (by whom I cannot recall at the moment) saw the engine extensively rebuilt. I suspect the Hortens would have been looking forward to the next generation of jet engines for the development of their flying wing - engines like the promising Heinkel HeS 011. Steve Gallacci was thinking about doing resin JuMo 004 and BMW 003.. but AFAIK he didn't proceed very far. Surely the ZM renditions aren't too shabby? Trumpeter's are nice but undersized (allowing scale cowls) while Hasegawa's, while basic, are correct diameter (which led to the 'bloated' cowls). Mattt daHeld 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seiran01 Posted September 8, 2014 Author Share Posted September 8, 2014 Thanks for the intel, Matt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pg265 Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Hi, This is a great start!! Beautiful details and nice paint job! Can't wait to see more Pascal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wimmer Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Started piecing together one of the kits two Jumo 004 engines. At first glance, all one can say is wow, though when you start assembling, it's not perfect. The pic shows the major components of the engine - there are additional parts for the external piping and other bits attached onto the engine which are not shown. The full compressor bank is a nice touch if you want to display an engine open, though you don't get details in the combustion chamber. The intake section of the engine is split into four pieces - two halves splitting horizontally in front of two halves splitting vertically. This does create some rather annoying seams that will need to be filled and sanded, as this area should be done in metal finish. It appears the parts breakdown was done this way to best mold the external details on those parts. Similar comment on the large rear compression chamber - the rear cone assembly is sandwiched inside and it appears that there will be a frustrating seam inside here as well. best approach may be to paint the interior of these flat black and detail paint the rear fan/cone as desired. Question - I'm considering picking up some CMK BMW003 jet engines which they make in resin for the he162. These were the original intended engines for the Horten - does anyone know how these compare in size to the Jumos in case modifications of the kit may be needed? I was pondering resin jumos but none exist in 1/32 scale. Trumpeter Jumo engines aren't any better engineered. This will be the last build update until after Labour Day weekend unfortunately. Long business trip and then off to a wedding = no build time. Mike, I'm following your build with interest. At the first look the ZM jumo jet engine appears to be better than the trumpeter release, which, in my opinion, shows four major mistakes: 1. The exhaust section is complete wrong in shape and has to be scratchbuilt (so I did). The ZM part looks much better here. 2. The rear attachment point is not present on the model. 3. The generator (not yet added here) is too small and should be replaced. 4. The revolution controller is wrong in shape, but will almost disappear between the pipes. I would love to see the other jumo parts of the kit. I'm planning to release a plumbing guide to the Junkers Jumo 004 engine here on LSP. If you decide to install the jumos instead of the bmw's and if it helps you out, I will try to hurry up. Chris daHeld 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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