spruebrothers Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Please keep something in mind - this is only one side of the story with none of these facts verified by the author of this article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Morrissette Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Gordan: Completely agree. Tom Cleaver is not someone I respect but it is publicly posted and wanted everyone to see it and Martin to have a chnace to respond also. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggernut Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Interesting. I don't really believe that this should have been posted by Mr. Cleaver as the court of popular opinion takes heresay as fact. I will be interested to see what the reply from Martin will include, if there is one. Business transactions should remain confidential and this alleged explanation from an unconfirmed source (we all know Tom Cleavers sketchy reputation) is just heresay until such time as the PR representative of HK models confirms or denies these allegations... unless Martin confirms it. Either way, I'll still be buying an H model gunship, just as I said I would. I will most probably purchase a C/D as well. Oh my aching wallet. Edited February 7, 2012 by TimC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kagemusha Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I find it disingenuous of Cleaver to publish without first giving Martin the opportunity to respond, find it galling that he makes snide comments about Martin, particularly as he was one of the few people to receive the B-25 kit. No class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) I have to admit, this does bother me. Wrong on several levels.....Harv Edited February 7, 2012 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royboy Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Being an outside observer as indeed most of us are, the court of public opinion will no doubt make up it's own mind on this issue. Clearly, this company wishes to restrict what it sees as damage to it's reputation and I guess to be fair they do have the right of reply on this issue. I can't think of one thread from Martin Vrielink that has suggested foul play on their behalf? He simply stated that the business deal went sour and it was terminated forthwith. I'm sure Martin will clarify further if he wishes to do so, but this is a modeling site not a business discussion forum, and although I'm sure it's of interest to some, I hope that we can all move on and talk about the exciting new models that both companies are now offering us. I for one will not be discussing this issue again, please, let's just talk about the MODELS!! Thanks. Roy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Well, I'm certainly not a Cleaver fan (far from it in fact), and agree he could have left his editorial comments out, I do think that HK models has a right to present their side of the story (even if they have not directly availed themselves of this media (web forums) to do so. With all the bashing of HK going on and many forum members (here and on other boards) making libelous accusations that they stole these kits from Martin, I think it appropriate for this information to be aired. As mentioned, this is one side of the story, and Martin can now decide for himself what he wants to add from his perpective, if anything. Everything could have remained confidential between the (former)partners, but for the rampant false accusations and bashing going on in this and other forums. For me, it's simply a business deal that did not work out, and I support both sides in their efforts to bring us new kits. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamj Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Personally I feel we should now look at this whole mess objectively,seems to be far too many twists and turns and feel a bit a bit of motion sickness coming on,especially with Tom Cleaver at the wheel. Think HK models should get a "CLEAN" and fair review when their kits hit the shelf .From what's been shown believe they'll have a positive impact on the modeling community.HK's line up looks spectacular to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 My "two cents" Martin said in effect; the kit would be excellent and all interested should still purchase it regardless..... Based of that; I plan is to purchase the kit(s) as originally intended.....regardless! Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) I find it disingenuous of Cleaver to publish without first giving Martin the opportunity to respond, find it galling that he makes snide comments about Martin, particularly as he was one of the few people to receive the B-25 kit. No class. I agree not the way to do things considering he was one of the people to actually get a kit - did he ever build it? i am not sure i intend on seeing each kit on its own merits Ads Edited February 7, 2012 by Ads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kagemusha Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I agree not the way to do things considering he was one of the people to actually get a kit - did he ever build it? http://modelingmadness.com/reviews/allies/cleaver/us/tmc3225.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill M. Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) I find it disingenuous of Cleaver to publish without first giving Martin the opportunity to respond, find it galling that he makes snide comments about Martin, particularly as he was one of the few people to receive the B-25 kit. No class. I find it "galling" that Mr. Cleaver and others play the race card and call "racist" any of us who dare to discuss the well-known Chinese failure to protect intellectual property rights. I don't know what happened in this instance, and I intend to withhold judgment, but I am sick and tired of certain people being so willing to call other people racist for taking contrary viewpoints that really aren't racist at all. It may be appropriate in a few limited instances, but to paint almost all who side with Martin as racist is highly offensive and does not contribute to the discussion. Bill M. Edited February 7, 2012 by Bill M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wing XL (Martin) Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Hello people, After reading this "new topic", a reaction is necessary. Personally I do not agree that copies of mails are just thrown in the forums by persons. Disregarding who and what it concerns. It is said it was done to avoid uniformed paranoia. Now a content of a mail is just published as a true story......without checking......so who is creating the real "paranoia" now ? When problems are there, indeed there are always 2 sides. In their copy mail there are things said, which are indeed true, I am not hiding from that. But also things NOT true. Yes, I was the one deciding to end it...but after they went totally silence and I heard another partner was taken in to continue the work. Would have been great if we could have had constructive talks before that change was made,to find solutions together and continue cooperation. I did not spent all my time and money in it, with the thought of saying goodbye...do we. It is complex matter, which can not and should not be clarified in a forum discussion. But here are things, I must clearly mention as NOT true !![/u] Would I have been receiving money after sending invoice ??....Highly unlikely !! 11% commission...yes, only when huge numbers would have been sold.....normal percentage 2-4%. Me being a fast one......running away with other Chinese manufacturer ?? NO !!!! Did I get 10 sets of B-25, without paying ?? Off course....because I had to sent them to the reviewers !!! The website www.m-legend.com (made in 2010, and a manufacturer already from 2001 !) from me or other partners of mine ?? NO !!! Just look at the pictures on that website....and most will see which kits are that....and who are the companies selling them now......definitely 100% NOT me ! Calling it fake and criminality....I agree......but it is NOT me. As I said before, both parties went their way after splitting up....which is both their good rights. They found their way and I found mine again. In last post I wished them good luck...having respect for the release of the 4-engined bombers. 2 companies always better then one. In the meantime I am busy with my stuff. That is it.....as I said before....the modeller is the lucky one......models are coming in the market....nobody expected some years ago. Everybody can choose what they want...... WingXL will continue as planned. In the meantime everybody is free to think about the matter as they like ! Regards Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeroenpeters Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 It is said it was done to avoid uniformed paranoia. Now a content of a mail is just published as a true story......without checking......so who is creating the real "paranoia" now ? Regards Martin Hi Martin, A clear cut case of mis-communication if you ask me. Caused by a culture barrier or... whatever. Both companies have apparently said their bit. One clumsy, copied from an e-mail and one on a regular open basis. Thank you for your clarification. Lookin forward to your first product. I'll buy it and more over.... build it! Cheers, Jeroen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggernut Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Personally, It doesn't matter what transpired between the two companies...it's really none of our business. Like I said previously, I'll buy the H model (and maybe a J gunship) and when Martin's C/D arrives, I'll probably end up with one of those too. Again, "Oh my aching wallet". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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