P-47 Cockpit

[John1]

Just starting to research the P-47D for my upcoming build.   Not a huge amount of pictures out there of unrestored P-47 cockpits.   I did come across this "virtual" cockpit.   Just curious what any experts think about it's general accuracy?

 

[Juggernut]

DCS is usually pretty good but I think their rendition is based on their modeling of a P-47D-40RE (rocket stubs under the wings but not entirely sure that’s the DCS aircraft modeled).  If you’re doing that version then you should be ok but may not be applicable for anything earlier or of different mark (I.e., P-47M).

Edited March 13, 2021 by Juggernut

[Ayovan]

 

1 hour ago, Jennings Heilig said:

But be aware that most, if not all P-47 cockpits were Dull Dark Green, not interior green as shown here.

Hmmm, I wasn't aware of that. I have a Hasegawa kit to build some time soon. Do you know if there is an FS number for said color?  I did find a couple of photos showing a darker blue/green color, but most I saw were zinc chromate green (assuming these were full resto).

 

[Jeff T]

For my build I used  Gunze No. 302  Green FS 34092, from my research, this seemed to be a pretty good match for Dull Dark Green.

 

Cheer's,

Jeff.

[MikeMaben]

Might be some help ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

hth

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by MikeMaben

[dashotgun]

ak ineteractive real colors has dull dark green  https://ak-interactive.com/product/dull-dark-green-fs-34092-10ml/   supposedly for the real colors they    colormatch  real objects.   Availible  from scale hobbyist  and others  

[MikeMaben]

I'd recommend MRP :  Interior Dark Dull Green

 Sprue Bros has it.

 

[TAG]

Hey, fellas, little late on this one, hope you still haven't started your cockpit, John.

 

I'd say that digital repro is pretty spot on, here's a pic of the real deal:

 

Note that this cockpit setup is for a D-30 and above, as it includes the bomb and tank release electrical panel, located between the rudder pedals (it's partially hidden by the control stick in this photo). Also, the floor is smooth as opposed to corrugated like earlier Jugs. Until recently it was thought the smooth floor began with the -30's but it's now generally accepted the change was already included in the -25 and -28 versions. Here's a period photo of a -25 cockpit with smooth floor, albeit sans the aforementioned bomb release panel.

 

I have plenty more cockpit shots, including some that Mike M. has already posted, so let me know if you need more reference material. As for DDG, here's some examples, starting off with the remains of Dottie Mae, right after she was pulled out of a lake in Austria.

 

Here's a couple of pix of the seat, clearly showing the blue-ish tint of DDG:

 

Seeing as the Jug is one of my favorite birds of all time, I've got plenty of refs, just holler at me if you need some more.

 

Hope that helped, cheers!

Thomaz

[John1]

4 hours ago, TAG said:

 

 

Seeing as the Jug is one of my favorite birds of all time, I've got plenty of refs, just holler at me if you need some more.

 

Hope that helped, cheers!

Thomaz

Hi Tomaz, thanks very much for those pics, they are quite helpful.  You might regret making that offer, I'm a complete novice when it comes to P-47's, lol.   A question on cockpits - any idea which subversion had the K-14 gyro gunsight added as standard and do you know if these where retrofitted to earlier versions in the field?   I don't see as many of these sights on P-47's as I do on Mustangs from the same time frame.  Maybe because the K-14 wasn't as important in the Air to Ground role?

 

If you have any good pics of the wheel wells, I'd love to see those.    I haven't even decided what my subject will be.   I'm leaning towards a later war P-47D flying in Italy in the air to ground role.  Lot of decals out there but so far, nothing is "jumping out at me".   

 

Thanks again for your help!

 

John

[John1]

9 hours ago, MikeMaben said:

I'd recommend MRP :  Interior Dark Dull Green

 Sprue Bros has it.

 

Thanks Mike.  Not to go OT but I've never used MRP before.  Does it brush and spray well?  What do you use for thinner?   I'm a Model Master guy who is starting to deplete his stash of those paints.  

[LSP_K2]

4 hours ago, John1 said:

Thanks Mike.  Not to go OT but I've never used MRP before.  Does it brush and spray well?  What do you use for thinner?   I'm a Model Master guy who is starting to deplete his stash of those paints.  

 

Airbrush only, and good to go right from the bottle, at least that's what I've heard a lot. I've yet to try it myself, but that day is rapidly approaching.

[Ayovan]

14 hours ago, MikeMaben said:

I'd recommend MRP :  Interior Dark Dull Green

 Sprue Bros has it.

 

I think my local shop carries MRP. (I use Tamiya mostley) I need a couple of sundry items today anyway, I'll see if they have it on the shelf. 

Thanks Mike

Andy

[D.B. Andrus]

As an aside, most, if not all, model paints purporting to be Dull Dark Green, are too intense(saturated) for modeling use straight out of the bottle. At our scales the mix the paint could be toned down a bit by adding a bit of neutral gray, or a very small amount of red to slightly lessen the brightness of the green. 

 

By brightness. I mean the richness of the color, ie. school bus yellow(very intense/bright) and Naples yellow(low intensity/dull).

 

Just my 0.02 cents worth. Back to our regularly scheduled program.

 

Cheers,

Damian

 

[TAG]

1 hour ago, John1 said:

Hi Tomaz, thanks very much for those pics, they are quite helpful.  You might regret making that offer, I'm a complete novice when it comes to P-47's, lol.   A question on cockpits - any idea which subversion had the K-14 gyro gunsight added as standard and do you know if these where retrofitted to earlier versions in the field?   I don't see as many of these sights on P-47's as I do on Mustangs from the same time frame.  Maybe because the K-14 wasn't as important in the Air to Ground role?

 

Much obliged, John, just lemme know what you need and I'll see if I can help.

 

So, the K-14 sight was factory-installed from the dash-40 onwards, which was pretty late in the war for Jugs. The most widely produced variant was the D-30, which still had the venerable Mark VIII reflector sight. Not sure how efficient each type was at air-to-ground vs. air-to-air, so I don't really know why the K-14 was more commonly seen on -51's. I'm sure there were plenty of Jugs retrofitted with gyro sights, though.

 

1 hour ago, John1 said:

 

If you have any good pics of the wheel wells, I'd love to see those.   

 

The wheel wells were pretty spartan affairs, nothing like the mess of plumbing and wiring seen in a Mustang gear bay. I guess because the giant wheels and tires made for some pretty tight tolerances. It's pretty hard to find period photos of Jug wheel wells, but these are quite accurate compared to parts/erection manuals. They were finished in yellow zinc chromate throughout all variants.

 

1 hour ago, John1 said:

 

 

I haven't even decided what my subject will be.   I'm leaning towards a later war P-47D flying in Italy in the air to ground role.  Lot of decals out there but so far, nothing is "jumping out at me".   

 

Thanks again for your help!

 

John

 

Ah, the oft-forgotten 12th Air Force... Personally, one of my favorite fighter groups livery-wise is the 350th, based in Tarquinia and Pisa, Italy 1944-45. They had some pretty snazzy kites, here's some examples, starting off with Torrid Tessie/Philadelphia Filly:

A couple more 350th Jugs:

 

One of the 350th's most famous birds is "Oh Johnnie!", flown by MoH winner 1st Lt. Raymond Knight. This Jug was inherited from the 1st Brazilian Fighter Squadron which was part of the 350th FG, so it was painted in factory-applied OD/Neutral Gray. After getting shot up on a mission, at least one (possibly both) of her damaged wings was swapped out for an NMF replacement wing. This is the only actual photo of "Oh Johnnie!" I've ever seen, it's hard to say with certainty if the wing is actually NMF or not.

 

In fact, my favorite livery of any theater of the war are the Brazilian Jugs, and I can't wait till life gets out of the way so I can build one of these birds in large scale. Here's a documentary about the Brazilian Fighter Squadron, it's a fascinating story, if you don't mind subtitles. I could make another HUGE post just about this unit, seriously.

 

Hope that helped!

 

Cheers,

T

[John1]

45 minutes ago, TAG said:

 

 

Hope that helped!

 

Cheers,

T

Thank you very much!!  More of a trivia question, any idea why the inner gear doors all had that NMF panel?  
 

Regarding Brazilian Jugs, see my other post below.   One potential subject I was interested in was a 57th FG bird that originally was flown by a Brazilian unit prior to being passed to the 57th.   Per various sources on the net, many / all of the Brazilian Jugs were painted RAF dark green.   Does this seem correct?

 

Regards,

 

John