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1/32 British Phantom FG.1/FGR.2 conversion for the Tamiya F-4J?

Derek B

By Derek B
in LSP Discussion

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F-4K/M (FG.1/FGR.2) Conversion?  

174 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you purchase such a conversion set if it were to be produced?

    • Would you by one/do you think its a good idea?
      123
    • Do you think its not a good idea/ wouldn't buy one?
      18
    • Not relevant to you?
      33

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Derek B

Derek B

Posted
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Posted (edited)

I'm trying to understand the economical point of view, but if the problem is to amortize the excessive molding/production/time costs then why did the Cutting Edge bring out many years ago brought with an expensive conversion kit? if CE was able to do it then other brands can do it as well, I think...

regards

 

I admit, it will be at least 10 years that I'm awaiting for a 1/32 Spey Phantom conversion.... :please: 

 

I understand Luca, as I also have been waiting a long time. For me personally, it is a combination:

 

Time (the biggest single factor for me), complexity (a CE/Wild Hare approach would be almost inevitable in order to produce an accurate F-4K/M, but to the IM accuracy standards now expected by modellers, which takes a huge amount of time and research).

 

The number of parts, cost of developing the tooling and producing the final product (you cannot just throw a master pattern at any given resin producer and expect them to mould 25 perfect copies from the off - their skill and experience has a large bearing on the success of the production parts, which often requires some amount of joint effort and time).

 

The time, research and cost of developing the necessary art work for the decals. Add to this having them produced (they are far from cheap in this scale).

 

Development and cost of producing and printing the instruction sheet, which has to be done in conjunction with the master pattern building (similar to the decals in this respect) - this also has to include box art.

 

Cost of packaging and materials.

 

The above are the main considerations and none of those costings even consider the amount of time and effort needed to research and make the master patterns themselves. Most businesses like mine (Eclipse Model Design) are part time - we generally hold down full time jobs as well and have families - so we cannot be considered in the same light as the larger full time professional model companies. When you add up the above costs for a part time model company with very limited funds, it becomes untenable.

 

Regards

 

Derek

Edited by Derek B
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nmayhew

nmayhew

Posted
Posted

i think Jennings' hints should pretty much kill any aftermarket / conversion manufacturer from going near this subject now 

 

i don't mean that in a bad way but to be honest (and no disrespect intended to Derek et al), the cottage guys have had their chance - i mean how many years have we all been talking about this and yet no-one actually took the plunge??

 

considering this is one of maybe two or three jet subjects that would drag me out of WWII the whole affair is getting a bit boring now, so Jennings please tell HK to pull their finger out!

 

:)

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Tony T

Tony T

Posted
Posted

I have a brand-new idea: how about doing a conversion of one of the Tamiya kits?

Ok, I will go away now-----

Life is too short, the results too naff and the whole "experience" unsatisfactory.

 

Don't underestimate the number of IM kits bought by collectors who just admire the engineering & product packaging, some of whom seem to lay down quantities of quality kits like fine port, to be enjoyed by future generations.

 

Tony

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fmitche

fmitche

Posted
Posted

fmitche,

 

I'm sure somebody would like to do that. If only somebody had done it earlier, and documented the whole process, and put it onto LSP in 4 neat installments..... sigh....... :innocent:

 


I was thinking that same thing only yesterday as I was dusting the three on my shelf. Maybe we ought to try it--

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daveoh

daveoh

Posted
Posted (edited)

Should I have a go? (Converting a Tamiya Phantom into an FGR.2 that is?).

 

Derek

Derek

I'd be happy with some resin cast RR Spay burner cans and some wider intakes that's all I would bother changing oh and a decent decal sheet. If it looks like a RAF Phantom that will do me. And it'll be a site cheaper. So if anyone on here casts some spey cans I'll have a set.

Dave

Edited by daveoh
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Ali62

Ali62

Posted
Posted

Guy's 

From my side the Phantom conversion is a long story, will keep this fairly brief, just have lots on the go (patterns to finish for other projects and have started a 'full time job', to get some regular and consistant income.

If you read what some of you have said in the post you are answering your own questions, take 4-6 months off work do the project etc. and make lots of money...

Then say that is not a real option.

The crowd funding idea is GOOD but is also a bad idea. I am curious like many other of the Blenheim project, and without knowing the man or any more than what I have read on the forums with regards to prices and numbers of kits to be made etc. I am very cautious, and before I upset anybody or the man himself I am just not 100% convinced that it can be done for the price quoted and for the anticipated sales, and not to mention we have not seen any drawings or even basic parts. I re-iterate I will be the first to raise a cheer if the project does come to frutition and if availabel and IF I have money I will probably purchase one.

 

Ok so crowd funding you all give me or MR X so many £/$ or whatever, the producer then has to produce the goods at a set price, and when and if it all goes belly up then how on earth does he pay everybody all back, and if he does not then how does he live with himself and or face the modelling world again???? the other problem with this project is it is so large that a pattern that gets made the first time may not work and there are so many areas that need attention that there are so many variables with cut lines and then with the tolerancing of the new parts to fit the injection parts. In some ways it could work out cheaper and better to make a brand new multi-media kit than do a conversion, obviously the best and easiest would be a IM kit by somebody.

 

Believe me there is a few that have looked at the project, GT Models, Derek Bradshaw, and my self under my own old banner of Alley Cat, and more recently for S & M models, this was an idea that we spoke of at last Telford. S & M announced it to the world with not even a budget price from me to do the project. When I quoted him as far back as April he was not sure, we then spent most of the summer months talking and re-considering the plan, wel as you now as for now the project is on the back burner.

 

As like many other I have spent the last few years looking at the project, and have purchased kits, books and even made the special trip to Carlisle to take pictures of and airframe, and dragged my wife along for the day. On top of I have read the articels spoken with Tommy Thomason, and many others, had a lone of a Cutting edge kit to look at and measure etc etc....... So all told I have spent a lot of money on time and research all from my own pocket. I still do not know everything about the conversion but and each time I look on the forums I learn even more points.

 

Believe me with at least three of us fairly in the know and have looked at some costings, I am sure most types of construction have been thought of and looked at, from resin to vacform etc.

None of them offer a full and or easy option, also some are now saying well the exhausts will help and I am sure that they will but in the scheme of it to make an accurate K or M Phantom that is the easiest part once it is drawn as is shown by Canuck Models.

Now if I or another company made a set of exhausts and put them to market and said here is your converion for a K / M, I do not think many would be impressed. I am over emphasising the point, what I am trying to say is some of you would be happy with a basic and cheap conversion option and others would expect all the bells and whistles with everything provided in the box, so where is the happy medium I ask.

Decals are another issue as we all know to do it correctly a full set of stencils are also required but there again there is at least two maybe three differnt colours for many of those, depending what colour scheme you wish to model? Then on top of that what other markings etc. would be best and roundel types etc......AND WE ALL HAVE OUR FAVORITE, and none of these decals are small, so that alone is a huge task.

 

It is all about numbers and when you look at the poll on LSP the yes votes are still just over 100 and that is been up for a few years, and even those guys are saying it is a good idea and have not sworn an oath to the cause.

I could go on a lot longer but patterns are calling me, but if some rich person would like to fund the project I am sure my arm could be twisted.

 

cheers Ali

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