1/32 British Phantom FG.1/FGR.2 conversion for the Tamiya F-4J?

[warriormcv]

This is the rear fuselage underside of the 1/48 Revell/Hasegawa FGR.2

 

1/48

 

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/warriormcv/FGR2%20underside_zpspjvfv07d.jpg

 

Sorry about the wobbly lines - I need a finer profile gauge

Edited August 16, 2015 by warriormcv

[warriormcv]

Has anyone reviewed a copy of this book and DVD? If so what's it like?

 

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/warriormcv/Book%20and%20DVD_zpse4r7pgr6.jpg

Edited August 16, 2015 by warriormcv

[warriormcv]

Here's two images of the 1/32 Tamiya F-4J fuselage and lower wing/fuselage parts, I have marked what I consider to be the areas requiring modification.

 

As a thought, for the initial poster 'Derek B', what about making the lower rear fuselage part as a single unit to be inserted once the original is cut away? The same with the intake areas too?

 

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/warriormcv/F-4J%20conv2_zpso36tseuh.jpg

 

 

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/warriormcv/F-4J%20conv2_zpsowwc5jyv.jpg

Edited August 16, 2015 by warriormcv

[Barry]

Here are some pics of the changes I have made to one half of a Tamiya fuselage as part of the study Derek and I undertook.

 

[Barry]

And a few more

 

[Tony T]

Holy Silver-plated 45-year-old Whisky Jar Barry.

 

Or, Robin, get me a change of outside underwear

 

Tony

[warriormcv]

Barry, wow, that is superb and from I have seen on this group and other sites I consider it to be the best and tidiest conversion to date. Well done - I will certainly be using some of your ideas and guidance.

 

The opening of the grilles above the intakes is a great job too, it must have taken quite some time! 

 

Is the aircraft going to be 50/50 FGR.2/F-4J? 

 

 

If it helps you, and anyone else, I live close to the RAF Museum at Hendon where they have an FGR.2 on display, let me know if/what detail photos you'd like and I'll happily have the excuse to pay it another visit and take a load of photos.

Edited August 16, 2015 by warriormcv

[Menelaos]

looking at that pics.... it's amazing what are you doing to create a Brit F-4.... concerning my ...0-Time I have to wait for a ready to go Kit.... perhaps in that life who knows .

 

The Brit Phantom...such a great developement...for me, perhaps the most good looking Phantom...

 

Especialy in the colors of the 767 Sq with the big Omega or Skua on the fin.....

Edited August 16, 2015 by Menelaos

[Derek B]

Here's two images of the 1/32 Tamiya F-4J fuselage and lower wing/fuselage parts, I have marked what I consider to be the areas requiring modification.

 

As a thought, for the initial poster 'Derek B', what about making the lower rear fuselage part as a single unit to be inserted once the original is cut away? The same with the intake areas too?

 

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/warriormcv/F-4J%20conv2_zpso36tseuh.jpg

 

 

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/warriormcv/F-4J%20conv2_zpsowwc5jyv.jpg

 

Hello warriormcv,

 

Barry and I hve spent many years discussing and carefully studying the British Phantom and its differences compared to the US variants (I have even had correspondence with Tommy Thomason on the issue as well, as I was an aircraft inspector working on the the two YF-4M Phantoms, XT852 and XT853, as well as other RAF FGR.2 and F-4J (UK) Phantoms).

 

My guess is that Barry showed you the photographs of his half conversion to illustrate that a proper conversion of an F-4J (or F-4C/D) into an FG.1/FGR.2 (F-4K/M) Phantom is not as straightforward as people would have you believe (there are very many subtle differences that are not immediately obvious to the eye).

 

If you take the base F-4J kit and convert it as accurately as possible to make it into an F-4M, there will be little of the original fuselage remaining that will not have been modified in some way. In this sense, it would be better to have a completely new fuselage (or looking at it conversely, a conversion set would need to be extensive, hence costly).

 

Barry's conversion is by far the most comprehensive and accurate I have seen to date and I will also be following him down the same road when I do mine (essentially modifying the kit in an almost identical manner to the full size aircraft).

 

Derek

Edited August 22, 2015 by Derek B

[whistlingdeath]

Sorry Derek, I have no interest in jets, and even less in the Phantom.

 

Kev

 We can all be perfect.

 

 

I would absolutely buy at least one. Decals really is a biggie of course, but I suspect if you build it the decals will come.

[Barry]

Has anyone reviewed a copy of this book and DVD? If so what's it like?

 

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/warriormcv/Book%20and%20DVD_zpse4r7pgr6.jpg

I have the two volume set of these drawings released some time back. Overall I believe them to be fairly accurate though there are some inaccuracies that I noted. If you want a set of drawing covering most of the Phantom variants then they are worth while. I would suggest however that you cross reference any non builder drawing against others before calling any drawing "completely" accurate.

 

Barry

[Barry]

Barry, wow, that is superb and from I have seen on this group and other sites I consider it to be the best and tidiest conversion to date. Well done - I will certainly be using some of your ideas and guidance.

 

The opening of the grilles above the intakes is a great job too, it must have taken quite some time! 

 

Is the aircraft going to be 50/50 FGR.2/F-4J? 

 

 

If it helps you, and anyone else, I live close to the RAF Museum at Hendon where they have an FGR.2 on display, let me know if/what detail photos you'd like and I'll happily have the excuse to pay it another visit and take a load of photos.

I may take you up on the measurements there are still a couple that are "best" guess. One specific comes to mind and that is the small fillet that fits between the flap and the fuselage. As the fuselage is wider at that point yet the width of the flap is unchanged then this fillet has to be narrower in width than on the other versions. I have guessed based on the added width of the fuselage but would like to know what it actually measures at the point it attaches to the wing and fuselage and at the aft most point between flap and fuselage.

 

[warriormcv]

Hello warriormcv,

 

Barry and I hve spent many years discussing and carefully studying the British Phantom and its differences compared to the US variants (I have even had correspondence with Tommy Thompson on the issue as well, as I was an aircraft inspector working on the the two YF-4M Phantoms, XT852 and XT853, as well as other RAF FGR.2 and F-4J (UK) Phantoms).

 

My guess is that Barry showed you the photographs of his half conversion to illustrate that a proper conversion of an F-4J (or F-4C/D) into an FG.1/FGR.2 (F-4K/M) Phantom is not as straightforward as people would have you believe (there are very many subtle differences that are not immediately obvious to the eye).

 

If you take the base F-4J kit and convert it as accurately as possible to make it into an F-4M, there will be little of the original fuselage remaining that will not have been modified in some way. In this sense, it would be better to have a completely new fuselage (or looking at it conversely, a conversion set would need to be extensive, hence costly).

 

Barry's conversion is by far the most comprehensive and accurate I have seen to date and I will also be following him down the same road when I do mine (essentially modifying the kit in an almost identical manner to the full size aircraft).

 

Derek

 

A very good response Derek, thank you.

 

Regarding Barry's work as shown in his photos, I'm still staggered at the sheer skill of it all and just how comprehensive it has been. It certainly highlights the point that you make regarding the nuances between the airframes for sure. 

 

I am very  fortunate in that I have the FGR.2 at the museum that I can access for references (hopefully I can persuade a kindly museum employee to allow closer inspection, I also have a list of preserved aircraft in a magazine where it may be possible to gt closer - I'll never know unless I ask I guess. I also have a dedicated Phentom modeller as a friend (through model club and the Hannants model shop) in Neil Ashby so hopefully he will assist me where he can.

 

One of my queries that I intended to ask was whether a C/D airframe would be suitable for conversion - I realise the nose and wings are different but I was not sure about the overall shape.

 

I know bugger all about how to create a female mould suitable for vacforming, but I do agree with you that this would be the most cost effective way at this scale. Since reading your comments earlier, I have tried o think a little out of the box regarding that - going back to when I was a Sea Cadet and we used to lay-up canoes in a fibreglass mould - how about doing similar using polyeurothane resin impregnated modelling tissue in a mould taken from a converted airframe? Would that be an economic viablity?

[warriormcv]

I have the two volume set of these drawings released some time back. Overall I believe them to be fairly accurate though there are some inaccuracies that I noted. If you want a set of drawing covering most of the Phantom variants then they are worth while. I would suggest however that you cross reference any non builder drawing against others before calling any drawing "completely" accurate.

 

Barry

 

Thanks for you advice Barry, I will certainly go that route - I get somewhat OCD on such things, so even though my actual modelling skills don't reflect it I have to know that I am following the right path lol

 

I have found somewhere that sells the book/DVD combo so I have ordered it today, I have also found a set of FGR.2 drawings on-line too so have purchased them also, its the best route.

 

I think short of McD/Boeing releasing the blue-prints comparing other available resources against each other is the most beneficial way. I also recall reading that as they were built they had variations in them anyway - whether true or not I don't know, just RAF airframe fitter chatter? lol

[warriormcv]

I may take you up on the measurements there are still a couple that are "best" guess. One specific comes to mind and that is the small fillet that fits between the flap and the fuselage. As the fuselage is wider at that point yet the width of the flap is unchanged then this fillet has to be narrower in width than on the other versions. I have guessed based on the added width of the fuselage but would like to know what it actually measures at the point it attaches to the wing and fuselage and at the aft most point between flap and fuselage.

 

 

 

I will see what I can do about photographing and measuring it Barry, it'll likely be next weekend before I get a proper chance to do so, but it will be done.

 

Anything else, any specific external photos etc?