I am a little curious about American insurance practices...

[John1]

51 minutes ago, Hardcore said:

Yes, lawyers, they are rarely involved here in compensation claims. In fact they are quite rare in the Swedish society. 

I figure the insurance system evolved differently because of this. 

America is run by lawyers.  Most of our politicians are lawyers.   The “system” is established for the sole benefit lawyers.  
 

The first thing every good American does when he/she is hurt at work or in a vehicular accident or if a medical procedure doesn’t work out perfectly, is to lawyer up.  You can’t drive down a highway in America without seeing multiple billboards for personal injury lawyers.   Lawyers have to carry professional liability insurance because they are getting sued.  
 

Welcome to ‘Murica.  
 

By the way - If I catch any of you jerks criticizing one of my models here on LSP, rest assured, you are going to be hearing from my lawyer.      
 

You have all been warned.  

[ScottsGT]

Hey John, not just lawyers as politicians.  Yep, you guessed it.  Insurance brokers.  That was one of the big stinks here in SC when the automobile insurance laws were “revamped”. Several congress critters in the State Legislature were Insurance salesmen/brokers full time.  

[John1]

9 minutes ago, ScottsGT said:

Hey John, not just lawyers as politicians.  Yep, you guessed it.  Insurance brokers.  That was one of the big stinks here in SC when the automobile insurance laws were “revamped”. Several congress critters in the State Legislature were Insurance salesmen/brokers full time.  

It’s just a big, nasty, cartel that runs the show.    

[chrish]

Some really different ways of getting insured out there.

here where I live vehicles are covered by provincial govt insurance (SGI) it has its good points and bad but it’s generally cheaper than most places in Canada and as it’s a govt issue all the paper work is on one stub, registration and insurance all together so, if the cops scan the plate and come up with “expired” registration that usually means the insurance is expired as well….off to the impound you go! SGI also mandates all our inspections speed cameras red light cameras etc.

homeowners insurance is private and can be bought at any insurance dealer which seems to also be regulated by the provincial govt. the neighbors to the west (Alberta) seem to get charged much higher rates for almost everything. I lived there a while and found much lower rates in Sask. BC and Manitoba seems to be very much like here (the only places I’ve lived and bought insurance)

4 cars and a truck (all those for my wife and I) cost us about 2500.00 a year no idea what house insurance costs, she looks after that

[ScottsGT]

Chrish, 

Funny related story.  That “insurance laws revamp” I mentioned included a new law where if you get caught driving without insurance it’s a trip straight to jail.  Don’t pass Go, Don’t collect $200.  To the pokey.  Well one problem with this new law was insurance companies didn’t have the reporting procedure down to a science just yet.  They knew how to report when you dropped it or it lapsed without payment. 
 

One of my coworkers did some price shopping and found lower cost coverage so he changed companies.  Old company reported he dropped his coverage.  New company didn’t report he picked them up.  Yep, you guessed it.  He got his license suspended and didn’t know it, got pulled for speeding and went straight to jail.  Of course once in jail he has no way to prove he has coverage and he had to wait until he went before the judge.  His one call he got, called coworker and told him to go to his insurance broker and get a letter of coverage.  Of course due to privacy, would not give it to him.  Showed up in court to tell the judge he tried to get it but couldn’t.  Judge released him and held friend responsible if he failed to appear in court at a later date with all the correct paperwork.  

[cbk57]

I would describe American insurance as single use, much of is use it then loose it.  A significant claim usually results in cancellation of the policy after payout.  Followed by great difficulty or impossibility get insured again at a reasonable rate.  Also costs are very situational and geographical.  Some areas especially coastal have a lot higher claims risk.  Urban areas tend to be much more expensive for auto insurance.  Health insurance in the U.S. was designed by American corporations as an incentive program decades ago and private insurance was sidelined as was government based insurance.  Then we went into a post industrial society and now lots of people need privat health insurance which is absurdly expensive.  Private enterprise for profit heath care and insurance and decisions regarding your health are fundamentally incompatible because in the end someone is making a decision about whether you are financially worth the cost and how cheaply can your health care be rendered.  

 

We have also let each state set their own insurance regulations which make the whole thing a complete maze of different results.  For me relatively speaking insurance is not a huge expense, we live in a rural area away from coasts and plains where tornadoes are common.  We live way above flood areas also.  As such our house and auto are pretty reasonable compared to what a lot of people pay.  Also our health insurance is subsidized through the university where my wife teaches, none the less though coverage has consistently been reduced while costs have increased steadily over the years.  

 

My biggest complaint would have to be health insurance and the fact that you never know what something is going to cost.  Only when you go to the doctor are you expected to have no idea how much money you are going to spend.  Everyone else has to tell you what the bill is going to be.  Even with really good health insurance, we are subject still to random surprise bills.  

 

Someone above blamed Lawyers, they are only one piece of the puzzle, the whole mess is a lot more complicated than that, including our refusal to have a rational discussion about what really should be public and what should be private sector.  I believe very much in free markets but at the same time not everything works in a free market, I am not convinced that health insurance actually works in a free market other than as a profit source for a corporation.   

 

United Health care is a stock i follow, it makes $25.00 per share outstanding and pays about a 1.5% dividend.  So health care is paying as a business, but does that really work for the patient?

Edited July 10, 2023 by cbk57

[kalashnikov-47]

On 7/6/2023 at 5:12 PM, ScottsGT said:

My son is stationed out in Colorado.  They have a “no fault” system.  Someone hits you, your insurance covers your car only. Kind of sucks because some tweaker driving high doesn’t pay the price for damaging your property. 

We have that in Michigan.  I hate it for the reasons you stated.  Good/careful drivers get screwed.

[Hardcore]

On 7/10/2023 at 3:44 PM, cbk57 said:

 

 

United Health care is a stock i follow, it makes $25.00 per share outstanding and pays about a 1.5% dividend.  So health care is paying as a business, but does that really work for the patient?

I recall reading it is a drag on the US economy too. The actual cost is higher compared to comparable nations, but I don't know if any studies have been done about hidden costs; like cost of bloated bureaucracy, opportunity costs, reduced productivity of workers, etc

[BarryWilliams]

On 7/4/2023 at 11:20 AM, Hardcore said:

I learned something new today. I added home insurance and forest insurance to my farm insurance a couple of weeks ago. I didn't receive any confirmation, and the premium remained the same. It turned out they added them without noting it anywhere and without raising the premium! I have no idea how they calculate it all... It's as if they feel like giving it away for free. How is it for you Americans? I know that insurance companies can be tough when it comes to health insurance, for example.

I can go one better than that.  
 

I recently looked into adding my 28 year old son temporarily to my car insurance and they wanted an extra £240 so I didn’t go ahead.  A few months later I asked to add my ladyfriend to my car insurance and they refunded me £20!   
 

Sometime  insurance just does not make sense and I speak as someone who has actually sold life assurance.  
 

 

[cbk57]

5 hours ago, Hardcore said:

I recall reading it is a drag on the US economy too. The actual cost is higher compared to comparable nations, but I don't know if any studies have been done about hidden costs; like cost of bloated bureaucracy, opportunity costs, reduced productivity of workers, etc

Personally I believe corporate employer provided, health insurance is a drag on the economy as people have to make life decisions based upon their health insurance plan, so they cannot change jobs or leave and start their own business.  Many don:t let that stop them.  But I know from personal experience this does effect descision making.

[Dave Williams]

16 minutes ago, cbk57 said:

Personally I believe corporate employer provided, health insurance is a drag on the economy as people have to make life decisions based upon their health insurance plan, so they cannot change jobs or leave and start their own business.  Many don:t let that stop them.  But I know from personal experience this does effect descision making.

People always have the option of buying their own health insurance, and therefore not being tied to any company.  Or choosing to not have any health insurance at all.  Life is full of choices.

[cbk57]

16 minutes ago, Dave Williams said:

People always have the option of buying their own health insurance, and therefore not being tied to any company.  Or choosing to not have any health insurance at all.  Life is full of choices.

Sounds great but not true, my wife for example has serious health issues, private health insurance would be difficult at best for us, no insurance would soon lead to bankruptycy.  Everyone has a health issue eventually and most people cannot afford one without some sort of coverage.  Without employer health insurance, we would have been financially ruined or my wife dead.

[Dave Williams]

3 minutes ago, cbk57 said:

Sounds great but not true, my wife for example has serious health issues, private health insurance would be difficult at best for us, no insurance would soon lead to bankruptycy.  Everyone has a health issue eventually and most people cannot afford one without some sort of coverage.  Without employer health insurance, we would have been financially ruined or my wife dead.

Actually, it is true.  People have the options.  Whether it’s practical or possible for one’s current life situation is another issue.  You said that corporate health insurance is a drag on the economy, and affects people’s decision on jobs, which sounds like corporate health insurance is bad, but people need corporate health insurance?  Not sure which argument you’re promoting.  Health insurance in the US is what it is, and it’s very unlikely to change anytime soon, if ever.

[cbk57]

1 hour ago, Dave Williams said:

Actually, it is true.  People have the options.  Whether it’s practical or possible for one’s current life situation is another issue.  You said that corporate health insurance is a drag on the economy, and affects people’s decision on jobs, which sounds like corporate health insurance is bad, but people need corporate health insurance?  Not sure which argument you’re promoting.  Health insurance in the US is what it is, and it’s very unlikely to change anytime soon, if ever.

I also have the option of selling my house and living in a tent.  I could have a lot of money in the bank if I did that.  However, that is not a realistic way to live in the current environment we live in.  Just because an option exists does not mean it is workable.  Leaving the health care system as is, is a choice also.  We choose not to do anything about it, basically we paralyze ourselves with fear, fear of liberals, fear of conservatives, fear of spending money, fear of loosing money and because of fear we choose to do nothing.

 

Anymore, all too often we automatically dismiss each other because of the lib/conservative label.  We chose our team and stick with them through thick and thin.  I find myself listening to the news and taking offense at state actions without even thinking it through.  Then as I think through the issues, I may still disagree but find in the case of what I am writing of that the conservatives are not all wrong.  I may disagree with their reasoning but as to a specific issue in the news of late, I hear the media taking a condemning tone, and liberals doing the same, but deep down i know that both sides have the whole issue wrong.  I say this to be illustrative of thinking in terms of our predisposition and failing to consider other options.  This paragraph is not directly related to insurance, but I don:t dare say exactly what it is about as it gets far too political, and I am not speaking to anything regarding any office but as to a specific issue that is a hot button in the news in the U.S. and to a degree also in Europe.

Edited July 13, 2023 by cbk57

[ScottsGT]

17 hours ago, Hardcore said:

I recall reading it is a drag on the US economy too. The actual cost is higher compared to comparable nations, but I don't know if any studies have been done about hidden costs; like cost of bloated bureaucracy, opportunity costs, reduced productivity of workers, etc

My wife works at a hospital. So much is waisted and bloated it would blow your mind.  Billing is such a mess, you better hope you’re not getting scammed because it would take a phd in accounting to figure out the shenanigans going on between the hospital, the insurance company, the MD’s billing, the anesthesia billing, the pharmacy billing, etc….

Many, many years ago I got the final bill for one of our kids birth.  Set up a payment plan right then and there, even made a sizable down payment. 
Was making payments on time, no problem.  By month 3 or 4 I get a call from a collection agency.  Nope. I wasn’t reported for non-payment.  They just decided to sell the debt for quick cash.  Sorry.  I have a contract with the hospital.  You can go pound sand. I’m paying them.